- This topic has 32 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated February 23, 2007 at 4:12 pm by Playground Politics.
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February 21, 2007 at 10:33 am #1040568
…….. im about to do a health and safety couse today as we have to learn about…
Harnessed Induced Pathology or HIP for short, A.K.A suspension trauma basically the victim loses conciousness due to a lack of blood flow and blood pressure to the heart and brain ergo cardiac arrest
i done a small bit of it during my rope access coourse, but the more i looked into the more it sort of freaked me out.February 21, 2007 at 10:46 am #1100137Timid Rabbit, thats nothing! I turn up to work every day with running the risk of RSI or even worse………. a paper cut! raaa
:laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at:
February 21, 2007 at 10:57 am #1100141starlaugh wrote:Timid Rabbit, thats nothing! I turn up to work every day with running the risk of RSI or even worse………. a paper cut! raaa:laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at: :laugh_at:
:wink::wink:
February 21, 2007 at 11:01 am #1100119timid rabbit wrote:Harnessed Induced Pathology or HIP for short, A.K.A suspension traumaEveryone freaked out when I passed out in my harness on my way to bed one night as they thought that had ahppened to me, but I was just horrendously drunk and passed out half way through ascending to my house.
I was up there for about 4 hours before I came to as no one could get to me as I had the only set of ascenders.
February 21, 2007 at 12:00 pm #1100113Originally I thought IT was fairly safe but its there are still a few hazards
- electric shock from mains wiring and telecoms cables (BT lines go up to 90V when ringing and you can definitely feel that (not good if you are up a ladder at the time!) there also used to be some nasty ISDN power supplies where -120V DC was presented across the BT wires, and this was not always clearly marked in the comms cupboard :yakk:)
- burns and fire (low voltage high current power supplies on short circuit can deliver lots of heat and most IT equipment has at least one of these PSUs) – and its easy enough to do yourself a nasty with a soldering iron if you are a bit careless or tired…
- cuts from metal conduit or sharp edges of PC cases and metalwork
- respiratory problems from solvents used for cleaning and the resin core of solder (not so much these days as I haven’t done much component level work for years)
- mental derangement from buggy software and sketchy suppliers…
February 21, 2007 at 12:15 pm #1100121These days nothing more dangerous than whatever my work enviroment happens to be or the last stupid place I climbed to for a photograph :groucho:
February 21, 2007 at 12:42 pm #1100131Worst hazard in my work enviroment (A building site usually) Is the other tossers who inhabit the same enviroment randomly tossing bricks,blocks,large bits of wood and scaffold poles about,also careless learner wheel barrow drivers have been known to be a danger,also whoever it is who makes the tea
seems intent on taking out the whole site with e-coli or somthing.February 21, 2007 at 12:47 pm #1100143as from monday (whoohhoooo new job) it will be millions of twats driving like idiots ,taxis and buses thinking they own MY road
pedestrians thinking a little red man means you can walk when you like
yes ill be driving a white van !:hopeless:February 21, 2007 at 4:03 pm #1100136BOREDOM! By the end of the day i brake into song and dance suddenly a few times with the excitment of being able to walk home!
February 21, 2007 at 4:07 pm #1100132As I usualy do technically stupid or incredible things for crazy artists and speedy museums,and often don’t have the right equipment and absolutly no time,my list is as long as you can imagine .
You can multipliate this by the fact I’m often “in the air”(ladders,scaffordings or nacelle), tired because sometimes working 19 days in a row,and it’s 10 PM and you have to finish all the exhibition electicity for tomorrow…
I thougt I was hardcore when free-partying full of chemicals in the Alps in the winter.In fact,I knew nothing about Hardcore.
raaa raaa raaa
February 21, 2007 at 4:08 pm #1100120not really but its part of my course, and i tink the biggest risk is having an iron bar or bill hook in the back of your head from someone being careless.
February 21, 2007 at 4:14 pm #1100118working with vulnerable people, one risk is that someone will make a false accusation against you
a mate is currently in the middle of a two week trial at crown court because of this. because of anti-discrimination (the accusers is severely disabled) his defence aren’t allowed to cross examine them and loads of other evidence that would help prove his innocence has been dis-allowed because the CPS don’t want to be seen as ‘anti-disabled’
if he’s found guilty he could be looking at 14 years
if he proves his innocence, he’s probably going to have to move to avoid reprisals as his name is already in the papers
:hopeless:
February 21, 2007 at 4:18 pm #1100138globalloon wrote:working with vulnerable people, one risk is that someone will make a false accusation against youa mate is currently in the middle of a two week trial at crown court because of this. because of anti-discrimination (the accusers is severely disabled) his defence aren’t allowed to cross examine them and loads of other evidence that would help prove his innocence has been dis-allowed because the CPS don’t want to be seen as ‘anti-disabled’
if he’s found guilty he could be looking at 14 years
if he proves his innocence, he’s probably going to have to move to avoid reprisals as his name is already in the papers
:hopeless:
Dam that is shit Glo!
Is it looking like he will be ok? Well best wishes for him, hope the right result comes through……….:bounce_fl
February 21, 2007 at 7:29 pm #1100144i have the risk of someone actually wanting my help
i get chatted up by grannys and old ppl
and if im lucky a get an old man shouting in my face FOR F***** seed potatoes
i love my job and its reassuring that at least some ppl find u attractive even if they are 70!
the life of a garden centre worker
February 21, 2007 at 10:05 pm #1100124timid rabbit wrote:…….. im about to do a health and safety couse today as we have to learn about…
Harnessed Induced Pathology or HIP for short, A.K.A suspension trauma basically the victim loses conciousness due to a lack of blood flow and blood pressure to the heart and brain ergo cardiac arrest
i done a small bit of it during my rope access coourse, but the more i looked into the more it sort of freaked me out.hello hello, weren’t you the one larging it up, about your workin at height experience! ha ha ha.:groucho: it is exactly as you said on that thread, if your workmates can’t get to you v quickly, you might well be dead. I bet you are lookin back now at all the things you have done in a harness, assuming it would save you if you fell. oh well, better to find out late than never!
So how long can you safely hang in a harness then, TR, i certainly cant remember what i was told. I’ve not done any of the courses myself, but my ex did a course when she got a job at English National Opera.
She came home with her lovely new Petzl harness, one day, and told me about this story, that the H+S guy mentioned. She said that a WAH trainer had put a volunteer in a harness, on a training course, and raised them off the ground. The trainer turned to the class and told them about a few of the details about harness work, momentarily forgetting about the person strung up behind them. Next time the trainer turned around (a few minutes later later) the volunteer had got that HIP thingy, and was brown bread! on a fucking training course…:hopeless:
That was the end of any idea i might have had, about harness work. As i said on that other thread, its a cherry picker or nowt, for me.
I remember(only 2 or 3 years ago), replacing some of the lights in the main house at the National Theatre, above the auditorium, where i had to stand on an unrated piece of acoustic ceiling thing, and let go with one hand before i could lean forward and grab a stantion with another.
I was told to do it alone (harnessed, obviously), and if i’d fell it would have taken at least 5 minutes, for someone to go and get a harness for themselves, get it on, and get up to me. And thats presuming i didnt hit my head, cos if i had been knocked unconscious, no-one was particularly lookin out for me, they probably wouldn’t have noticed.
When i first started on shows, most people just didn’t use harnesses at all, and in some ways it was safer, no false illusions of safety!
It is a stunna, from what little i know…:crazy_diz
What course is it exactly?
February 21, 2007 at 10:09 pm #1100125Whats a nacelle, is it a kind of platform?
February 21, 2007 at 10:22 pm #1100126I got a belt (a leccy shock) off the top of a genie once, only 20foot or so up,but findin myself crouched in the basket, wonderin why i had a bloodless hole in my hand, shook me up good and proper.
The guy i was workin for (at heaven nightclub), did the same to himself a few weeks later, except he was on the top of the trussing. After cookin for 10 secs or so, he realised that the v old breakers thought he was a light, so he had to let go.
He smashed his pelvis pretty bad (no harness, obviously), and was in hospital for months. Last i heard, he was just about managing to do a follow spot job…:hopeless:
February 21, 2007 at 10:28 pm #1100114marcusblanc wrote:Whats a nacelle, is it a kind of platform?I think nacelle is actually French for a cherry picker or similar device (more precisely the basket part of it)
February 21, 2007 at 11:11 pm #1100127Aha! thanks GL.
February 22, 2007 at 12:08 am #1100142Suspension trauma is a perfectly natural reaction caused by the body being held in an upright position. It will happen to everyone, and you do not need to be ill or injured – simply standing still and unable to fall over.
Our blood supply and heart cannot cope very well with standing up – gravity pulls blood into the tissues of our legs, and the heart cannot suck it back. Eventually, if enough blood pools in the legs, we will faint. This is fine, so long as we fall over – the blood all rushes back – but if we can’t fall over, then we die.
sometimes we faint. If we can’t use our legs at all, such as if we’re strapped into something or hanging in a harness, then we will faint. The problem comes after that – if you faint, you really need to fall over right away. Stay in the same position, and your brain has no oxygen supply.
Anyone who could faint and not fall over. People working in industrial harnesses (using abseiling or fall arrest systems or people in confined space shafts), people using harnesses for sport (caving, climbing, parachuting, parascending, bungee jumping rope access) and people using harnesses for special tasks (stuntmen, theatrical flying, etc Me}) are all exposing themselves to high risk, some more than others. Anyone who is secured to a vertical surface for any reason (a rescue litter or spine board, plank of wood, door, bondage equipment, etc) may also be at risk. The most famous, or infamous, example of deliberate suspension trauma is of course nailing someone to a cross.
In any of these situations if you are not using your legs for support, or are unable to move them, then you will eventually faint. If you live or die depends simply on how quickly you fall over – preventing that from happening will of course kill you.
Now to get that blood back up from our feet, we could increase the pressure – forcing it round like a blockage in a U-bend – but that would need such high pressure our hips would burst. No, instead of turning up the power, we have evolved a much better solution – hearts in our legs. Yes, you read that right. The veins in our legs already have one-way valves in them, so all we need is to squeeze them and we’ve got ourselves a pump! Since we started walking upright, these leg veins have moved so they are buried in between the muscles, so as we move our legs and walk about, the veins are squashed and released over and over – pumping the blood back up into your abdomen. It’s an amazingly good system – when you’re running, there’s hardly any blood pressure in your feet at all!
Of course you can see the error with this perfect plan – if you don’t use those muscles the pumping effect stops and your brain, right at the top of the pile, runs dangerously low on blood very quickly! This can happen if you’re standing very still, or hanging in mid-air, or strapped to something. If you’re standing still then the brain can fix the problem…
Firstly, when blood to the brain reduces, your brain decides to put you in shock. You must be bleeding somewhere, right? So, it increases your pulse and breathing rates, you feel a little sick, shivery, cold, sweaty and anxious. This doesn’t really help much, as what you SHOULD be feeling is a craving for exercise – but never mind, evolution is never perfect. That higher pulse rate shunts blood up to the brain and away from the skin, which helps for a few minutes – but of course it’s still pumping blood down into those legs as well. Eventually, your brain realizes its mistake and goes for plan B – the Central Ischaemic Response. You faint.
Why? Because of course if you faint, you must fall over. Your brain has learnt that from millions of years of… falling over. When you hit the floor, the blood trapped in your legs returns, and all is well. You wake up, feel sick, and if you’re a soldier on the parade ground you prepare for the punishment of your life. The problem is when you don’t fall over. Your brain has no comprehension of that idea – so if you are physcially held upright after you’ve fainted – by a harness, litter or cross – your brain is in deep trouble. It’s turned off its own blood supply to get you to faint, and it still needs the blood in your legs. So, it waits. You’re unconscious of course, so you aren’t aware of all this.. but you wait. You do not ‘wake up and try something else’ – you wait. You die waiting.
How long have you got?If your legs are perfectly still, then you can start feeling the first signs of shock in as little as three minutes. The average is between five and twenty minutes. You will faint a few minutes after that, and if you are not allowed to lie down straight away then your brain can start to die a few minutes later.
So, worst case scenario you can be dead in ten minutes. Actually, less than that – because once you faint, you lose control of your airway and if your body is upright you can choke on your tongue and suffocate in a matter of seconds.
Not everyone will be pushing death inside of a quarter hour though – the time it takes is random. Some people will last ten, some sixty. Age, height, weight, fitness, sex, race – none make any difference. The same person will react differently from one day to the next. In short, it’s unpredictable. Very old people suffer first, as their muscles are less able to control the blood flow, and very young children are immune as their bodies are just too short! Nobody’s sure at what age you become ‘at risk’, but certainly anyone over about 5 feet tall is capable of feeling the effects.
Luckily, we’re telling you all this because there are
but its so important when yr lowewred down to be kept in the w postion
February 22, 2007 at 5:07 pm #1100135probly chopin my hand/finger off with a big knife becos im hungover and havnt slept ( i work weekends :hopeless: )
February 23, 2007 at 12:55 am #1100128great post TR, thanks for that, i never understood the mechanism by which it happened…at all!
fookin hell!:hopeless:
I guess thats why pilots use those compression suit things…
I cant wait to tell my techie mates, i’m off boozin with em this wknd… thanks again TR!
February 23, 2007 at 1:01 am #1100129Hey, i’ve just thought about the pumps in the legs, if we didn’t have em, we couldn’t dance!
February 23, 2007 at 1:20 am #1100130As you might know I’m a teacher in Bangkok. I have seen tables on fire in my classroom.Students fighting each other,paper flying across the room at speeds of supersonic.
I LOVE IT :weee:
February 23, 2007 at 9:10 am #1100139benbear wrote:As you might know I’m a teacher in Bangkok. I have seen tables on fire in my classroom.Students fighting each other,paper flying across the room at speeds of supersonic.I LOVE IT :weee:
HaHa i know what you mean chaos and dissorder can be entertaining.
But tables on fire!! them kids are worse than i was at school! didnt think you could get worse :bounce_fl
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