surely blood would also be a result of cops hitting people with batons?

its also legally questionable getting DNA samples from people who have not been arrested (not to mention expensive) – this means it is really being treated as a major incident

Although you’re mate hasn’t got anything to fear if he wasn’t near the frontline the cops wouldn’t be giving away photos either if they didn’t think they were in the wrong by going in hard – cops aren’t gonna stitch themselves up!

Whatever peoples personal views on what happened in Essex, a lot of the “anti-rave lobby” (i.e farmers, locals) still feels that more “robust” action should be taken to stop raves.

There is increasing anger in Norfolk over how the smaller Norfolk Constabulary seems to let them still happen whilst Suffolk, Essex, Beds and Herts have clamped down and stopped a lot of events from happening.

Cambs (which was allegedly once more lenient) has also clamped down and they now send cops from other force areas to help out as the airwave comms equipment can work across forces a lot easier than the old hand-held UHF radios – and can also allow nimbys to speak directly to a police officer on their radio to pass on intelligence (it is also a mobile phone)

I expect cops are also unhappy with crews from SE England moving East to link up with the “Norfolk” crowd due to SE England areas being increasingly locked down.

It does seem that what the cops are doing is working out the pros and cons of going in heavy – OK they will get complaints and it is costly in financial terms and damage to community relations (I bet a lot of youths in Essex don’t have a lot of support for the cops or law now!) but if it keeps raves out of certain areas and minimises complaints from landowners and locals they will think it is worth it…

I think everyone in the East of England needs to be very careful at the moment.

Err….. NO!

AFAIK they still need to first give you a clear direction to leave the area under the Criminal Justice Act and only then after that can anyone be arrested if they refuse to move on…

i understand all of the above…just!

what about if its on land where you do have permission?

does all of the above still apply?

for a permitted event, its harder for cops to use the CJA (although it could happen) but they can more easily stop it under various other forms of legislation if there was a real threat to public safety or a serious incident (such as a shooting/stabbing) happened, and Environmental Health can still curtail it if noise levels were excessive.

However an event which merely has “permission” from the landowner and not a license (other than a truly private party) still leaves the organisers (and landowner!) at risk of prosecution for licensing violations. And even a licensed event can be stopped due to a serious incident occuring.

there are also new laws planned which would allow a 48 hour closure merely for repeated events at the same location that cause “alarm or distress” (i.e. enough nimbys whinging about it).

Bear in mind also most forces now have a CPS lawyer on standby at the end of a mobile phone or airwave radio so they can get legal advice (including the potental use of obscure and archaic laws from the clampdowns on fairs/festivals centuries ago) very quickly indeed.

hmm – if her house was done over then she would have presumably reported it to Norfolk Constabulary?

However the incident happened in a different force area – that confirms that there is now a considerable amount of cross-referencing of intelligence info between forces, and the info such as car ownership details is no longer just being “stored and forgotten about” which is what used to happen…

I’ve heard from a local source that a number of people from one of the more well-known rigs have been subjected to a lot of Police “interest” from both their local forces and Essex.

At least one person is now serving 4 years for drugs offences as cops were able to match a lot of intelligence info…

Also I’ve found information elsewhere (from the people who look after Farmer Giles’s interests) that implies that Suffolk police have offered extra resources to back up Norfolk and Cambs if they don’t have enough cops to stop a rave…

whatever this incidents causes it was probably the largest civil disturbance in the East of England this year – from other info posted to party messageboards it is becoming clear that this is being investigated at a very high level now involving Scotland Yard (the same team of detectives that deals with terrorism, murders, cross-border internet-related crime etc) and probably the Home Office as well..

the most that will happen is that some cops get a mild bollocking for being over-zealous; however the authorities will definitely be trying to hold people to account for the rave – the greatest annoyance seems to be that it took the cops so long to shut down the event and that the motorway needed to be closed

OTOH I reckon if anything the cops’ powers/resources and training will be boosted – they are gonna think “if a bunch of sketchy ravers can cause this much carnage – what could happens if something like a riot (perhaps between locals and immigrant communities) kicks off in one of the Eastern towns?

The Eastern cops have also been very quickly given some money to buy a nice shiny new comms van from BT/O2 Airwave so the airwave network doesn’t crash when there are loads of radios in the same place (in the same way that festivals often have their own mobile base stations on site).

I saw this van in Ipswich in the summer shortly after the “riot-rave” – it is a “normal” looking transit van (apart from the huge antenna!) with no obvious police markings and blue lights concealed in the roof rack”.

It is sometimes used when loads of cops were turning over an estate with high crime levels.

A relative of mine lives not far away from this estate and was complaining that her TV reception was knackered most of the day by random lines intermittently going across the screen (this is a sign of digital interference from Airwave radios, which use similar frequencies to TV sets)

it did.

basically what appears to have happened (after finding some info on a blog posted by a copper which gave away a few clues (didn’t think they were still allowed to blog about ongoing incidents!) was this…

1. cops arrive in Landrover to try and close down rave
2. cops got pelted/abused by crowd and involved in scuffles – and lost the keys to their vehicle on the ground in the scuffle
3. they try to call for backup on their airwave radios (the ones that look like a big old mobile phone) but the digital network has crashed because there are so many coppers in one place trying all to use their radios at once (like how mobiles go all dodgy at raves and festivals)
4. they run back to their landrover to try and call for backup on their VHF “main set” (the old analogue radio) which is inside the landrover. (This is the device with the big telephone handset that you see cops in old TV shows like “Heartbeat” talking into! ). Its often now a part digital system but can still use the old analogue networks if need be.
5. As the plods have lost their keys, they smash the windows of their own vehicle so they can get inside and get at the radio and call for assistance. They must have been somewhat frightened and panicked to do this!
6. Having done so (presumably when the backup arrives) they then make a further assault on the rave.
7. Whilst they are occupied in other skirmishes, someone goes and lobs in a firework or other incendiary device in through the insecure windows of the Police vehicle..

and the situation escalates further…..

I had a call from the OB asking me to make a statement but i told them where to go and it was’nt Amerillo! Then about a month later a detective just turned up at my house asking for my account of what happened and to take DNA samples but i just said look i was there, i have been partaking in the illegal disco dancing scene for about 6 years now and have never seen a display like that of the bank holiday weekend. they still wanted more info but i just told them that’s all i know I went to stomp and get mulled and asked him leave as i was in a rush to get out.
So dont get bullied into talking to them they can do nothing if you dont.
:bounce_fl

That sounds vaguely accurate, though I didn’t see the whole thing. What they miss out is that the OB Landrover was driving towards music equipment with the intent of destroying it (which they did when they finally got close enough). The missiles were a direct result of them using heavy-handed tactics and basically inciting a riot through their aggressive behaviour.

And the fact that one policeman lost a finger cannot justify such a ridiculous post-event investigation. What about the much more serious injuries picked up by ravers that seem to be getting ignored by the IPCC?!

trust me my dear amigo they most certainly can and even if you did refuse, be an arse and demand they dont … youll have a court order up your bum faster than youd think was possible as GL said this is most prob being treated as a major incident

I had to change flights in New York a couple of years ago. In any other country they wouldn’t even look at my passport but in NY they took my photo, DNA and an infra-red scan of both my hands.
I’m sure that if they’re allowed to do it in America just coz I happened to be there that they will be allowed to do it in the UK if they suspect you were involved in anything remotely bad.