- This topic has 10 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated October 23, 2005 at 10:28 am by elraveon.
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October 18, 2005 at 5:28 pm #1036853
although the penalties handed out to the organisers are remarkably low, the report is the first to mention actual use of a party photos gallery to add to evidence. A lot of rig kit was seized; not sure if this has been returned – would expect cops would try to have it destroyed as “a rig for an eye”
Quote:Police track down rave six on web
North Wales Police said they used the internet to help track down six men who organised an illegal rave, where a policeman was injured. At a special court in Pwllheli on Monday, the six admitted charges relating to organising a music event without a licence.
Hundreds turned up at Whistling Sands beach on the Lleyn Peninsula during the 2004 August bank holiday weekend.
A policeman lost his eye after being hit by a stone thrown from the crowd.
North Wales Police detectives became involved in the investigation because a police officer had been seriously injured.
Police helicopter
It proved impossible for them to track down the individual who had thrown the stone which hit the policeman, but their investigations led to the prosecution of six men who helped arrange the event.Anyone who comes to rural Wales to do this kind of thing will be dealt with harshly
Dc Maldwyn Roberts
“The police knew about internet sites which are used by the ravers,” said Detective Constable Maldwyn Roberts, one of a team of investigating officers.
“We used pictures they had posted on one of the sites after the event, video footage from the police helicopter, and evidence we had collected when we stopped people as they left the site to bring a prosecution,” Dc Roberts added.
The police say the successful court case – using legislation which has been little used by North Wales Police in the past – gives out a clear message.
“Anyone who comes to rural Wales to do this kind of thing will be dealt with harshly,” said Dc Roberts.
Raves are billed as ‘free parties’ and are held – often illegally, on private land – all over the country.
The six who pleaded guilty to organising a rave to which licence was not in force were from Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire.
They were all fined between £100 and £500 and ordered to pay £500 compensation to the National Trust which own the land at Whistling Sands.Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wales/north_west/4353338.stmPublished: 2005/10/18 15:39:38 GMT
© BBC MMV
October 18, 2005 at 5:53 pm #1067397Anonymousthis was a party that went badly wrong!
ppl from north wales ddint even have anything to do with it, we were at another party getting far less bother from the police.
it just goes to show how out of control parties can get!
October 19, 2005 at 9:13 am #1067406I dont know all the ins and outs of this case, but they pleaded guilty to organising a party which in itself isnt a crime unless it was for profit or a public event and they didnt have a public entertainments license(PEL).
what is worring is that once again several people were persuaded to plead guilty, then again maybe they planned it to be a public event for all, advertised it as such or did it for profit or with the aim to lure people to sell them booze. I doubt that was the case and if so, if we cant get round the difference between Private and Public events then freeparties are fucked.
the question is “was this a PUBLIC Party or was it a PRIVATE Party” what evidence did they have to prove it was a Public event and would it of stood up in court, we will never know in this case but we do know that it was enough to convince the accused or they had no confidence in the legal systems justice or they just wanted to get it over and done with.
A lot is said about partys after the event and sometimes too much before but when there is a legal case very little is said about it before and after, so its very hard to learn from the experince. It would be helpful if someone involved explained what happened in detail and elaborated the procedure and evidence that led up to the trial, what made them plead guilty and any lessons that were learned.
October 20, 2005 at 11:35 am #1067405Anonymousit seems wales is getting pretty rinsed at the mo, i was wondering how long the welsh popo were gonna take it. same thing happened in surrey, lots of unbusted parties, attracted every rig and his dog, who rinse the sites. and dont come from the area so dont neccessarily respect it or know the ins and outs.then a serious incident (in wales the policeman losing his eye, in surrey a grade 1 listed building was burnt down) will bring media and high-ranking police attention, then the funds will be released to shut em down, and it’ll happen. i hope it doesnt, but i wont be suprised.
October 20, 2005 at 12:27 pm #1067398since everyone has had their day in Court and there is no way whatsoever the 6 chaps arrested can be implicated in the injury of the cop (I know some of them and none of them would have wanted things to go this far) I’ll add some more details
the incident is actually from summer 2004, the first season after the long hot summer caused a massive backlash.
what happened is that out of some of the local crews in my area, some went to Nottingham (mansfield desert) whilst others went to this ill-fated party.
I have spoken to people who were there and will try and get someone else to discuss, although sadly I think people are too ashamed of the whole affair as however you spin it it looks bad on the so-called “party people”. Unfortunately the papers can’t really be accused of lying when 3 or 4 people from separate backgrounds have told me pretty much the same thing as what happened in the newspaper reports.
From reading both the articles and the comment from the Welsh lady on this thread it looks like the venue was ill-chosen, particuarly as people parked their cars in farmers fields or blocked access (which has been avoided at the last few parties recently)
The party was s63’d – but allegedly given some time to carry on until Sunday Lunchtime and pack up. the crews refused to accept this, (unlike those in Nottingham who accepted they’d had a night and moved on…) so some bobbies seized the generators.
They were then followed by a large crowd of ravers, who tried to get the gensets back, so the cops threw the gensets over the mountain!
As a reprisal, they were then pelted at which point the officer sustained a serious eye injury. This would also show the cops were in normal uniform, a TSG copper wears a very robust helmet with a face-shield!
Cops then retreated (probably to ensure the injured officer got medical treatment) so the crews occupied the land and tried to set up again (one genset was still working!) ; only to be properly evicted by a full TSG (riot squad) deployment and all the equipment to be confiscated. Hardly surprising really, or the locals would eventually have gone apeshit and the chance of a full-on riot…
Although the cops throwing gensets of a cliff was clearly wrong, it does come across like an action carried out out of sheer panic and fear that their authority broke down, coupled with the typical British stubborness that “we won’t let them win”. you also have an equally stubborn crowd ; where one angry young man acting totally on his own yet “acting for everybody” causes a cop serious injury.
Now if cops dragged out a young girl from the crowd and beat her with batons I could understand an amount of violence; – but from what I have been told most violence was merely a reprisal over the gensets. I can’t see any excuse for causing a public service worker permanent disability, over a few hundred quids worth of iron and steel, even if you don’t agree with his or her actions at the time.
Especially when it could all have been prevented by packing away and regrouping.
Someone has wrecked a life for a couple of pieces of machinery; and quite frankly the action smacks more of someone “wanting to be the hard man” than helping the crews – I’m not surprised the cops went in heavy afterwards.
It in fact worries me more that such violent peopel are to be found at parties; look what the culture of violence has done to London raves. where could it go next? if someone thinks its OK to blind a cop; then they may think it OK to use violence against someone from a “rival crew” at raves. Come to think of it, even outside London raves violence has escalated in the last few years….
there has been more violence amongst ravers in the last two seasons in my area than from the cops, even with the cops’ increasing use of TSG formations!
Worse still, why didn’t people contact the Welsh raverS? there are loads on PV and other rave boards; with local knowledge, perhaps even contacts in areas where raves could be tolerated.
Everyones lost now, whether they are locals or ravers. Locals will be paying for the cops pension in their council tax for 40+ years, I would expect the cop is now put on a desk job of watching the internet to stop raves, and community relations between Wales and England in this area have been irretrievably damaged.
In some ways this comes across as “drugs tourism” in the same way as people invading Asian countries to hold parties because their enforcement authorities can’t cope…
October 20, 2005 at 1:07 pm #1067399USE wrote:then the funds will be released to shut em down, and it’ll happen. i hope it doesnt, but i wont be suprised.its already been done
the funds are the “targeting anti-social behaviour” budget – this started in around 2002 and was beefed up following 2003’s long hot summer.
sadly I think a lot of this is due to the change in the rave ethos itself over the last 10 years
Miid 90s / early 00s raves were done by more of the “hippy/eco-warrior” contingent, who although a bit “strange” to middle england had a surprising amount of sympathy and their own code of respect. Indoors you would get 2 parties out of a (provincial) warehouse in a month and use the two off-weeks for arts/crafts/engineering work on rigs and other stuff – the place wouldn’t get totally trashed either…
there was none of this partying in active barns and fucking up farmers’ grainstores like what I’ve heard of in the North Oxon/Northants regions (anf then people wonder why TVP and Northants cops get pissed off!) – nor were people holding ridgeway parties in lambing season ( its like holding a rave outside a maternity ward FFS!)
Rigs and crowds were smaller and parties ended by early Sunday afternoon (enough time to clear up so dog-walkers saw the dog-end of a rave being cleared up and didnt’ think it was that bad rather than moosers openly taking drugs under their very eyes)
you could actually get a few coins in the donation bucket at indoor parties (it was tried on the ridgeway but a girl nearly got run over)
Nowadays there’s a definite “petrol head/chav/cruiser” mentality, there’s a lot of modified cars and even people ragging their cars through crop fields 🙁 – a lot more ego/people trying to pull, a lot more fights, people take raves and crews for granted – its rather like the commercial raves of the early 90s, but all the ego without the friendly (if naive) atmosphere.
There’s still also a lot of medium level criminality including autocrime and even domestic violence associated with raves
A lot of the angry young men who went to raves in our area at weekends had some full-on fights with their partners or faimlies on the comedowns – before Airwave my mates used to hear it all on the scanner!
Sometimes people would be heard being searched at raves and their records came up; there were people who did all sorts including muggings…
Add to that the amount of people who end up in rehab/needing NHS treatment because of drug addiction which started off as recreational use on the rave scene…
so its come on top – cops, locals and NHS staff are fed up of the disruption and costs, and crews are becoming fed up of losing thousands worth of kit, getting criminal records whihc affect the rest of their lives (PEL convictions are treated as dishonesty and could stop you getting loads of jobs) and not even getting any thanks for their efforts.
It looks like things are going back to the club nights and the radio stations…
October 20, 2005 at 2:49 pm #1067402[QUOTE=
Worse still, why didn’t people contact the Welsh raverS? there are loads on PV and other rave boards; with local knowledge, perhaps even contacts in areas where raves could be tolerated.I agree with this…
there are plenty of places in n.wales that make excellent regular spots for local crews. a good knowledge of the local area is imperative if you’re not going to upset a load of people – some farmers can get very anxious about their land and others are far more forgiving. some places cushion the music, keeping disturbance to a minimum, and others seem to amplify it.
i wasn’t at this party and so i can’t really comment on the specifics, but i have to wonder how giving local crews would be to outside soundsystems coming in on “their” turf?October 20, 2005 at 2:55 pm #1067403“Miid 90s / early 00s raves were done by more of the “hippy/eco-warrior” contingent, who although a bit “strange” to middle england had a surprising amount of sympathy and their own code of respect.”
tbh, most of the party people i know in n.wales are of this ilk – some really great people with a genuine respect for the land.
wales is a beautiful country and most welsh ravers i know want to keep it that way 🙂October 20, 2005 at 2:56 pm #1067404crap – my quote things dont work!
October 20, 2005 at 3:28 pm #1067400thanks vicky – I was hoping you’d respond given your local connections.
I hope a few people would add their bit who were there – its got to the stage where the people involved have had their full names put in the local Press, and dragged through the mud so people might as well talk about it in the open; I hope such an incident like this never happens again.
Thinking about it, the stand off with the gensets and the riots/injuries sound more like something out of a military history book (particularly border disputes between the English and the Welsh) than the sort of stuff which should be happening in 21st century Britain.
Essentially this is civil warfare over the right to play music; surely modern society could come up with a better solution?
October 23, 2005 at 10:28 am #1067401at least Storm has got their rig back… I hope the other stuff that was taken is returned (I reiterate that this kit, and the people involved had no part in the injury to the cop, and now the Court has made its decision that this is the case…)
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