Although I am a supporter of the concept of Europe, (I would not learn 3 other popular European languagest otherwise) I don’t think it makes all that much difference in the current climate.

The original idea of “social Europe without borders” was hijacked by neoliberal centre right wing free market types in the 1980s/1990s, was perverted into “market comes first rather than people ” and has ultimately led to a lot of damage being done to member states – such as the forced privatisation of telecoms and energy utilities (rather than each sovereign nation being allowed to decide whether or not to do so) – similarly with such things as the smoking ban.

Many Northern European nations were doing perfectly OK with having their utilities or at least the main parts providing infrastructure in public ownership.

However Norway is not in the EU yet its government is considerably more “left wing” than surrounding nations – but this may not be repeated in the UK. However we do not have the power we once did, and it would mean that UK tourists/travellers would be subject to much more scrutiny, surveillance and judgement as people from Africa or other nations, and there are plenty of folk in other EU nations who do not like being dependent on revenue from “English football hooligans/pissheads/townies” and this and the economic depression might spur them on to being less dependent (and therefore “welcoming”) to such things as the European drugs tourism many English indulge in. This would impact on folk what travel to Europe for hedonistic purposes. I do not and will not do this (more out of respect for other countries than not “liking” foreign travel) so it doesn’t bother me, but it may well affect those who enjoy going to places like Ibiza..

Also the EU member states (including the UK) go bleating at foreign nations to be more democratic (yet sell them cheap oil), but when the dissent they encourage in these nations (whilst clamping down on it at home) leads to folk being displaced and becoming immigrants they whine about having to look after them and which nations should do so.

There are no easy solutions here, and no “bright side” now the economic boom times are permanently over (which was really what kept the EU together, rather than genuine tolerance/multiculturalism). When I was a boy, the “Common market” existed instead of the EU, and half the current member states were either under strong government from USSR or even military dictatorships (ES was a right wing dictatorship well into the 1970s).

Although I think it is very unlikely that in my lifetime European nations will ever go to war with each other again like the 1930s following that economic Depression, history may repeat itself as far as the 1970s. It wouldn’t even affect England that much due to it being an island nation and relatively strongly guarded, and probbaly not richer Northern European countries but breakdowns in the EU will affect Southern Europe more, and as a worst case might even imperil democracy in some of the poorer nations.

@HSB 453435 wrote:

I think asking the general public to decide on a matter that is this complex and that has so many far reaching implications is a terrible way to govern.

It was actually Winston Churchill – a Conservative – who encouraged the Common Market as a “united states of Europe” in the first place as a way of stopping something like WW II ever happening again, at least amongst the richer countries with common heritages. To be fair it wasn’t that bad an idea.

The “Social EU” was a better idea but this depended on having the consensus of the public of all the nations involved that they will put their peoples tax money behind it. This is hard to get when there is economic depression.

Today I see there is a strike in Greece, which is affecting all the airports/tourist places. I don’t think the Greeks or their trade unions are stupid and they know that this will affect their tourist revenue and the chance of them getting EU money so to me that is a sign that if they are going to get austerity forced upon them by whatever means they will fight back by being less welcoming to visitors. And many other nations will follow suit. I don’t even blame them for doing so, but it means I would not bother travelling there. I still don’t think there would be overt warfare, but things some of us take for granted today like being able to travel without borders and foreign naitons being relatively tolerant of the often unpleasant behaviour of those from other nations on holiday may not endure..

I think the UK should remain in the EU but never adopt the Euro. We’re basically reaping loads of benefits (such as travelling without visas, not paying tariffs when we import/export EU goods) without crippling our economy by having our currency tied to a central bank we don’t control.

I think it’s a temporary setback though. There may be gimpy EU regulations but I would wager that we would be worse off were we not in it. We export something like 40-60% of our goods to EU countries and benefit greatly from the fact that we don’t pay tariffs on them, not to mention all the good stuff we get from the continent.