Forums Music Sound Engineering Sound System Plan: Sound Good?

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  • #1174021
    junglist1234
    Participant

      Brand
      Eminence
      Model
      Beta 12LT
      Description
      From Eminence datasheet:
      Materials of construction:Kapton coil former for increased rigidity and thermal protection two-layer 32ga copper voice coil for improved power-handling and durability. Ferrite magnet. Vented core for increased power handling. Premium pressed steel basket for maximum strength. Paper cone. Cloth cone edge. Solid composition paper dust cap A twin-cone model for full range up to a useful 8kHz output in compact P.A. systems. The addition of the second cone gives extended high frequency response up to a useful 8kHz.

      Range / type
      Wide-range
      Typical use
      PA
      Recommended enclosure
      64—106 liters
      Series
      Beta
      Manufacturer
      Eminence

      Production status
      Active 2003
      Nom. diamerer[inch]12
      Vas[Liters]136,3
      Qts
      0,51
      Qes
      0,55
      Qms
      6,44
      Fs[Hz]45
      Sensitivity[dB]

      Max Power[W]225
      Power definition
      W RMS
      Lower freq[Hz]45
      Upper freq[Hz]8000
      Rec. Filter freq[Hz]

      xmax[mm]0,8
      Moving mass[g]36
      Disp area[m2]0,05324
      Disp Vol[cm3]0,042
      xdamage[mm]17,27
      Air gap[mm]

      Coil height[mm]7,94
      Coil diameter[mm]50,8
      Cms[mm/N]0,34
      Rms[N*s/m]1,59
      Magnet weight[gr]38
      Magnet height[mm]

      Magnet diameter[mm]

      Magnet material

      Re[ohm]7,37
      Z[ohm]8
      L[mH]0,83
      Bl[Tm]11,7
      Magnetic flux[Wb]

      Flux density[T]

      Outer diam.[mm]305,2
      Bolt circle[mm]295,3
      Nr of bolts[Nr]

      Cutout[mm]278,6
      Weight[Kg]4,4
      Height[mm]

      Depth[mm]113,5
      Driver volume[Liters]

      Frequency SPL / Z


      Home page[url]http://www.eminence-speaker.com
      Data sheet[URL}

      Enterd by

      Date reviewed
      2003-12-21
      Date added
      2003-12-21

      Sorry for the long post. Thought I’d put it up anyway. Dunno if this will be useful to anyone but it might help someone find me a box :weee:

      #1174022
      junglist1234
      Participant

        Kind of know what this is on about but I cant really make head or tail of it. Also, that sheet didnt tell me some of the parameters so this isn’t 100% accurate

        #1173996
        elretardo87
        Participant

          You don’t want to use software for designing band pass cabs for your midtop.

          Try winisd.

          #1174023
          junglist1234
          Participant
            elretardo87;221966 wrote:
            You don’t want to use software for designing band pass cabs for your midtop.

            Try winisd.

            Thats the bloody program I’ve been tryin to think of.

            When it asks me what type of box I want, closed, vented, 4th order or 6th order bandpass, its 4th order bandpass I’m wantin int it?

            (Edit) Never mind, Elretardo has told me. Cheers for that. Now I just need to figure out how to tune a port

            #1173989
            Anonymous

              just got another load of emminence beta 15s

              #1174003
              Raj
              Participant

                Ports are used to tune the volume [internal volume of air] in the cab. It allows you to use smaller cabs than you would be able to without them.

                #1174024
                junglist1234
                Participant
                  Raj;222381 wrote:
                  Ports are used to tune the volume [internal volume of air] in the cab. It allows you to use smaller cabs than you would be able to without them.

                  Yeh I’ve got a basic idea of how they work but I just need to figure out how to set it on WinISD!

                  #1173999
                  noname
                  Participant

                    If it’s your first time building speakers, I’d steer away from doing bandpass boxes and stick with ported radiators (bandpass are a pain to get right, and you’ll need well developed woodworking skills to even have a hope of getting it right – as a quick note, I’ve never heard of bandpass mid/tops – they’re generally used for bass and sub unless I’ve missed something?).

                    With a ported cab you at least have the ability to tune the box to take account of the build innacuracies (basically the port allows you to either tighten or loosen the bass by lengthening/shortening the vent – this causes the tuning frequency of the cab to either go up (by lengthening), or down (by shortening) to get it right. Not having them turn out perfectly box shape is actually more of a benefit in most cases too (if the sides aren’t perfectly paralell you cut down on a lot of the internal reflections and standing waves that mess up the sound).

                    What I have to say about scoop bins is probably best left unprinted… I may be unnecessarily biased about this, but I have yet to find a scoop design that has any audible benefit in low/sub reproduction over a simple radiator – a horn at least has the benefit of extra throw (much like cupping your hands over your mouth to focus the sound further away), but the basic idea behind these designs is flawed (because it relies on the transistor effect which requires a logarithmic flare opening – possible with 2″ top drivers – and very effective, but ends up impossible to achieve with an 18″ driver in any meaningful way). I’ll get plenty of argument over this likely, but you pays your money, you takes your choice really – the scoop and horn designs are markedly more complex, and easy to get wrong for a benefit thats nebulous at best….. Put your long throws (in this case relating to the cab design – you get drivers that are labelled as long throw, but this relates to the Xmax zero to peak linear displacement, not the focus distance) in after you’ve sorted the near field, and when you start doing stadium gigs…

                    If you can handle waiting a month or two, the next part of the sound system building how to I’m doing is on the theory of cabinet design (I’m going to cover closed, ported, bandpass and horns to begin with (although I may try and blag elretardo into doing the horn section for me as my opinion of bass horns is pretty low – he likes them far more than I do and will likely do a better job :weee: ), and maybe do some of the more esoteric ones like 1/4 wave tubes and whatnot as an afterthought). That all presupposes I get a bit of time though (I’ve been promising Dr B it’s coming since last september, but people keep finding jobs for me). The part after that is going to be on overall rig design and how to best plan for any particular purpose which you may also find helpful – again, no guarantees as to when it will be done by though…

                    If you cannae wait, I’ll put a few links below that are worth a look – take most of the claims for any design with a pinch of salt obviously (response curves are a general indication only – much will depend on your building ability, and the materials you use). There are some excellent designs among them though, and lots of info on the whys and wherefores…

                    Speaker designs (mostly from the Fane big rig cookbook, and fairly old now – still good though.) Most of the bass designs are horns – so expect to be annoying peeps in the town 4 miles away if you build them :wink:.

                    Dancetech’s site – speaker designs about 1/2 way down, but lots of good info on sound dispersal etc (apart from the bit about bass not having directionality which is nonsense).

                    Another bunch of designs – all sorts here. Some good, some hysterically funny. Many are in Czech or Polish (I think), but the measurements are in maths language and so usable.

                    Another link site with designs. I particularly like the EV pro facts #7 which has a bunch of ported designs (64) and measurement info that allows you to get the box right for pretty much any speaker you have the Thielle/Small specs for with a little work :weee:. Some of the links don’t work any more, but most of the really useful ones do.

                    The JPO linklist – a huge list of links relating to audio design. Some are brilliant, and some are… not:wink: Like anything, dinnae believe everything you read on the web….

                    Speakerbuilding.com – well worth a read – not all PA, many are hi-fi designs, but some seriously inventive ideas (always wanted to try the Ammonit, just to see if all the effort is worth while…)

                    Speakerplans.com – some good designs if you really want to go for the deep end and see if you can swim… If you go to the “sub plans” section, the “C sub” and the “184 sub” are both 4th order bandpass designs – primarily for PD drivers, but the 184 sub has a list of other drivers and mods to make for them (and includes the fane 18XB which is IMO the best bass driver on the planet :wink:). Not designs for the faint hearted though, and if you’re new to cab building expect to consign the first try or two to the “firewood” pile.

                    The Eminence Beta’s you’ve got are designed to be put in a ported radiator (think it says this somewhere in the advertising bumpf). Good drivers – we use a pair in monitor wedges, and they’re solid drivers. Sound isn’t as good as the gamma’s or kappa’s, but well recommended for use as mids and fairly tough – I’ve driven the wedges at well over the 225W RMS (accidentally obviously :wink:) and they’re none the worse for it… Dinnae expect them to do the rumbly jungle sub you’re looking for though, cos you likely will break them if you do. You need bigger cones for that….

                    As a final thought, please for the love of god (or gaia, buddha, whatever) when you build your cabs, DON’T FORGET to put some acoustic wadding inside (this is usually marked in the plans, but if it isn’t make sure you cover at least 3 of the internal panels). Loft insulation does this well, or you can buy purpose made wadding (which will be essentially the same but 3 times the price). Come across a few rigs that haven’t done this, and it will make your whole rig sound like a bag o nails…:wink:

                    Turned into another long rant :crazy:…. Hope it helps raaaraaaraaa

                    #1174025
                    junglist1234
                    Participant
                      noname;222649 wrote:
                      If it’s your first time building speakers, I’d steer away from doing bandpass boxes and stick with ported radiators (bandpass are a pain to get right, and you’ll need well developed woodworking skills to even have a hope of getting it right – as a quick note, I’ve never heard of bandpass mid/tops – they’re generally used for bass and sub unless I’ve missed something?).

                      With a ported cab you at least have the ability to tune the box to take account of the build innacuracies (basically the port allows you to either tighten or loosen the bass by lengthening/shortening the vent – this causes the tuning frequency of the cab to either go up (by lengthening), or down (by shortening) to get it right. Not having them turn out perfectly box shape is actually more of a benefit in most cases too (if the sides aren’t perfectly paralell you cut down on a lot of the internal reflections and standing waves that mess up the sound).

                      What I have to say about scoop bins is probably best left unprinted… I may be unnecessarily biased about this, but I have yet to find a scoop design that has any audible benefit in low/sub reproduction over a simple radiator – a horn at least has the benefit of extra throw (much like cupping your hands over your mouth to focus the sound further away), but the basic idea behind these designs is flawed (because it relies on the transistor effect which requires a logarithmic flare opening – possible with 2″ top drivers – and very effective, but ends up impossible to achieve with an 18″ driver in any meaningful way). I’ll get plenty of argument over this likely, but you pays your money, you takes your choice really – the scoop and horn designs are markedly more complex, and easy to get wrong for a benefit thats nebulous at best….. Put your long throws (in this case relating to the cab design – you get drivers that are labelled as long throw, but this relates to the Xmax zero to peak linear displacement, not the focus distance) in after you’ve sorted the near field, and when you start doing stadium gigs…

                      If you can handle waiting a month or two, the next part of the sound system building how to I’m doing is on the theory of cabinet design (I’m going to cover closed, ported, bandpass and horns to begin with (although I may try and blag elretardo into doing the horn section for me as my opinion of bass horns is pretty low – he likes them far more than I do and will likely do a better job :weee: ), and maybe do some of the more esoteric ones like 1/4 wave tubes and whatnot as an afterthought). That all presupposes I get a bit of time though (I’ve been promising Dr B it’s coming since last september, but people keep finding jobs for me). The part after that is going to be on overall rig design and how to best plan for any particular purpose which you may also find helpful – again, no guarantees as to when it will be done by though…

                      If you cannae wait, I’ll put a few links below that are worth a look – take most of the claims for any design with a pinch of salt obviously (response curves are a general indication only – much will depend on your building ability, and the materials you use). There are some excellent designs among them though, and lots of info on the whys and wherefores…

                      Speaker designs (mostly from the Fane big rig cookbook, and fairly old now – still good though.) Most of the bass designs are horns – so expect to be annoying peeps in the town 4 miles away if you build them :wink:.

                      Dancetech’s site – speaker designs about 1/2 way down, but lots of good info on sound dispersal etc (apart from the bit about bass not having directionality which is nonsense).

                      Another bunch of designs – all sorts here. Some good, some hysterically funny. Many are in Czech or Polish (I think), but the measurements are in maths language and so usable.

                      Another link site with designs. I particularly like the EV pro facts #7 which has a bunch of ported designs (64) and measurement info that allows you to get the box right for pretty much any speaker you have the Thielle/Small specs for with a little work :weee:. Some of the links don’t work any more, but most of the really useful ones do.

                      The JPO linklist – a huge list of links relating to audio design. Some are brilliant, and some are… not:wink: Like anything, dinnae believe everything you read on the web….

                      Speakerbuilding.com – well worth a read – not all PA, many are hi-fi designs, but some seriously inventive ideas (always wanted to try the Ammonit, just to see if all the effort is worth while…)

                      Speakerplans.com – some good designs if you really want to go for the deep end and see if you can swim… If you go to the “sub plans” section, the “C sub” and the “184 sub” are both 4th order bandpass designs – primarily for PD drivers, but the 184 sub has a list of other drivers and mods to make for them (and includes the fane 18XB which is IMO the best bass driver on the planet :wink:). Not designs for the faint hearted though, and if you’re new to cab building expect to consign the first try or two to the “firewood” pile.

                      The Eminence Beta’s you’ve got are designed to be put in a ported radiator (think it says this somewhere in the advertising bumpf). Good drivers – we use a pair in monitor wedges, and they’re solid drivers. Sound isn’t as good as the gamma’s or kappa’s, but well recommended for use as mids and fairly tough – I’ve driven the wedges at well over the 225W RMS (accidentally obviously :wink:) and they’re none the worse for it… Dinnae expect them to do the rumbly jungle sub you’re looking for though, cos you likely will break them if you do. You need bigger cones for that….

                      As a final thought, please for the love of god (or gaia, buddha, whatever) when you build your cabs, DON’T FORGET to put some acoustic wadding inside (this is usually marked in the plans, but if it isn’t make sure you cover at least 3 of the internal panels). Loft insulation does this well, or you can buy purpose made wadding (which will be essentially the same but 3 times the price). Come across a few rigs that haven’t done this, and it will make your whole rig sound like a bag o nails…:wink:

                      Turned into another long rant :crazy:…. Hope it helps raaaraaaraaa

                      Cheers, man, I’ll probably refer to this just as much as I do to the other bits of info I’ve picked up :weee:

                      Aah just been readin about speaker theory/design etc constantly lately and I understand a bit of it but most of the details are still gibberish to me and its doin ma head in! I know that thats just what you have to go through to learn but its annoyin after a while! Still gunna carry on readin through everythin I can find tho coz I know that thats the only way I’m gunna get anywhere! Doesn’t help that I’m just cobblin different bits of info together from various parts of the www either and then tryin to make sense of it all. (Thats why you should get the sound system how to.. done:weee: I’m not blamin you that its not done now tho coz I can imagine how hard it is/how long it would take!) But yeh when thats done it will be rete rete useful!

                      Anyway, I’ll reply to each part of your post in sections coz its so long! (Not a bad thing by the way:love:)

                      I’d steer away from doing bandpass boxes and stick with ported radiators: Yeh thats what I’m gunna do. Theyr easier to design/build which is what I’m lookin for!

                      I’ve never heard of bandpass mid/tops – they’re generally used for bass and sub unless I’ve missed something?):
                      I think your referrin to the post I put askin if I should choose 4th order bandpass or some such stuff. Don’t worry, I were talkin balls, don’t take any notice of that post!

                      Not having them turn out perfectly box shape is actually more of a benefit in most cases too: Never thought about this but it makes so much sense now you’ve said it!

                      (because it relies on the transistor effect which requires a logarithmic flare opening – possible with 2″ top drivers – and very effective, but ends up impossible to achieve with an 18″ driver in any meaningful way): I know the basic idea behind horns, throwing the sound further back so it is still clear a fair distance away but I havent got a clue what your on about in this bit :hopeless:

                      Dinnae expect them to do the rumbly jungle sub you’re looking for though, cos you likely will break them if you do. You need bigger cones for that….: Yeh I knew they wouldn’t be much good for any industrial amounts of bass but thats what the 18″ hogs will be for 😉

                      when you build your cabs, DON’T FORGET to put some acoustic wadding inside: Haha, yeah don’t worry I thought of that, I can’t even begin to imagine how horrible the box would sound without any!:yakk:

                      Cheers for that, mate it were rete useful, the links are really good as well, readin ma way through em now!

                      #1174000
                      noname
                      Participant
                        sheffield-junglist;223109 wrote:
                        (because it relies on the transistor effect which requires a logarithmic flare opening – possible with 2″ top drivers – and very effective, but ends up impossible to achieve with an 18″ driver in any meaningful way): I know the basic idea behind horns, throwing the sound further back so it is still clear a fair distance away but I havent got a clue what your on about in this bit :hopeless:

                        The idea behind horns (originally) was more to try and achieve the kind of amplification that is possible with an instrument (like a trumpet), where the sound is amplified by the bell shape at the exit. Basically, what happens is the flare causes the air pressure countering the exiting sound pressure waves to match impedance. The result of this matching is something called the transistor effect – where a small input results in an exponentially increased output of the same sound. A great idea, but in practice not easy to achieve 😉

                        #1174026
                        junglist1234
                        Participant
                          noname;223495 wrote:
                          The idea behind horns (originally) was more to try and achieve the kind of amplification that is possible with an instrument (like a trumpet), where the sound is amplified by the bell shape at the exit. Basically, what happens is the flare causes the air pressure countering the exiting sound pressure waves to match impedance. The result of this matching is something called the transistor effect – where a small input results in an exponentially increased output of the same sound. A great idea, but in practice not easy to achieve 😉

                          Oh aye I get you. Still readin ma way through loads of stuff tryin to get ma head around things like that:crazy:
                          Cheers mate

                          #1174027
                          junglist1234
                          Participant

                            (From Xover post) Rete, basically know wot I’m doin now cept I cant figure out exactly what cables I need. Also dont know exactly wot order everythin goes in and coz these are the only problems I have for now hopefully I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone with this post!
                            Heres how I think it should be done but I’m most likely wrong

                            Decks>Mixer>Graphic EQ>3 amps>X-over>Bass-bin/mids/tops

                            I think that the X-over might go before the amps but I’m not rete sure.
                            Yeh so can people tell me
                            a) Which order this shit goes in
                            b) What cables I need (the only ones I know for sure are the ones that connect the decks n mixer cuz I’m just THAT useless:cry:)

                            Coz I havent got a clue:crazy:

                            PLEEEEEEEZE ELP!

                            #1173990
                            General Lighting
                            Moderator

                              the crossover goes before the amp. Wait for the canny scots or Biotech to explain which way round the XLR cables go as I’ve long forgotten (its been a while, nearly 3 years now since I had anything to do with sound equipment)

                              #1174028
                              junglist1234
                              Participant
                                General Lighting;226621 wrote:
                                the crossover goes before the amp. Wait for the canny scots or Biotech to explain which way round the XLR cables go as I’ve long forgotten (its been a while, nearly 3 years now since I had anything to do with sound equipment)

                                Nice one. Yeh if someone could do me some sort of diagram showing everything connected together and which cables are used to do that it would be rediculously useful.

                                #1173991
                                General Lighting
                                Moderator

                                  I’m sure elretardo87 did do one but I can’t remember what thread it turned up in or where it is….

                                  also (having just read your equipment list again) if you have a crossover which operates at line level which is what you appear to have you will need more than one amp, usually separate amps for low/mid/tops..

                                  #1174029
                                  junglist1234
                                  Participant

                                    Oh yeh back to the 220Hz port-tuning thing (ElRetardo sed that the mid box should be tuned to 220Hz), this is what happens when I tell WinISD that:

                                    [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/dave/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

                                    Looks a bit dodgey to me (Not sayin elretardos idea was dodgey,just the graphs) Probably coz I’m not usin winisd properly but I dunno all you wise-ones take a look

                                    Dunno why the pics look so wierd when you click on em.

                                    #1174030
                                    junglist1234
                                    Participant
                                      General Lighting;226624 wrote:
                                      I’m sure elretardo87 did do one but I can’t remember what thread it turned up in or where it is….

                                      also (having just read your equipment list again) if you have a crossover which operates at line level which is what you appear to have you will need more than one amp, usually separate amps for low/mid/tops..

                                      Yeh were gunna be usin 3 amps (Thought I put it in the other post but maybe not)

                                      (Edit:

                                      Decks>Mixer>Graphic EQ>3 amps>X-over>Bass-bin/mids/tops

                                      #1173992
                                      General Lighting
                                      Moderator

                                        fair enough, was reading the list at the first bit of the post where you mentioned a old Realistic amp (I remember these from the early 90s!) I’d use that for the monitor speakers only TBH….

                                        #1174031
                                        junglist1234
                                        Participant
                                          General Lighting;226627 wrote:
                                          fair enough, was reading the list at the first bit of the post where you mentioned a old Realistic amp (I remember these from the early 90s!) I’d use that for the monitor speakers only TBH….

                                          Yeh well its only 100W so not really powerful enuff for any of our other boxes and it weighs a tonne! Aah thanks for remindin me about that coz when I turn our monitor on I can smell burnin. Need to have a look at that coz were already borrowin an X-over and 3 amps (hopefully, need to get that sorted), not wantin to have to borrow a monitor as well :hopeless:

                                          In fact I’ve got a mono PA amp layin about. I could use that to run the bass-bin so then I’d only need to borrow 2 amps if it is. Havent really had a look at it tho.I’ll have to see whats what.

                                          Oh yeh I just realised why did I even think that the Xover came after the amps in the 1st place, would’nt be able to send one signal thru 3 amps without it (Unless theres another way)

                                          #1174001
                                          noname
                                          Participant
                                            sheffield-junglist;226625 wrote:
                                            Oh yeh back to the 220Hz port-tuning thing (ElRetardo sed that the mid box should be tuned to 220Hz), this is what happens when I tell WinISD that:

                                            [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/dave/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

                                            Looks a bit dodgey to me (Not sayin elretardos idea was dodgey,just the graphs) Probably coz I’m not usin winisd properly but I dunno all you wise-ones take a look

                                            Dunno why the pics look so wierd when you click on em.

                                            The pics look wierd because the tuning frequency is wrong – you should tune your boxes to a value slightly higher than the Free air resonance frequency (Fs) given in the driver specs. You do this so the unnatural peak in response at resonance is damped by the air mass of the box and ports (your box response will have a steep rolloff below the tuning frequency, essentially damping the tendency to resonate inherent in the driver).

                                            The response curves show a box tuned way above the right frequency for the driver, resulting in a large peak in response at the tuning frequency – this is very bad (the main reason for a box in the first place is to make the response as flat as possible – your speakers and amps should be as linear as possible, meaning they should introduce as little alteration in the character of the sound reproduced as possible.)

                                            sheffield-junglist wrote:
                                            (From Xover post) Rete, basically know wot I’m doin now cept I cant figure out exactly what cables I need. Also dont know exactly wot order everythin goes in and coz these are the only problems I have for now hopefully I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone with this post!
                                            Heres how I think it should be done but I’m most likely wrong

                                            Decks>Mixer>Graphic EQ>3 amps>X-over>Bass-bin/mids/tops

                                            I think that the X-over might go before the amps but I’m not rete sure.
                                            Yeh so can people tell me
                                            a) Which order this shit goes in
                                            b) What cables I need (the only ones I know for sure are the ones that connect the decks n mixer cuz I’m just THAT useless:cry:)

                                            Coz I havent got a clue:crazy:

                                            PLEEEEEEEZE ELP!

                                            You wire it:

                                            //////////////////////////////////////////// |—3–Amp—4—Bass Speakers
                                            \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |
                                            Decks—>—-Mixer–1–EQ—2–Xover|—3–Amp—4—Mid Speakers
                                            \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |
                                            //////////////////////////////////////////// |—3–Amp—4—Top speakers

                                            The Actual wires needed will need you posting the makes and models of each piece of kit – what I would generally expect to find on the equipment is:

                                            1) Mixer to Eq – 2 cables, one for left and one for right channel would likely be female XLR to either male XLR, or 1/4″ TRS jack (the XLR cables are wired with pins: 1=Earth, 2=Hot signal, 3=Cold signal… If wired to a TRS jack, it will be wired: T=Hot signal, R=Cold signal, S=Earth. If one end is not balanced line – likely the mixer if any, then just short the cold signal to the earth one at the non-balanced line end)
                                            2) Eq to X-over, again one for each channel likely female XLR to male XLR, wired as above.
                                            3) X-Over to amps – one stereo pair per frequency band (ie lo, mid and hi). Should be Female XLR to male XLR, but may be female XLR to 1/4″ jack – see the wiring for 1 for wiring info. You will have 3 pairs (ie 6 cables)
                                            4) Amps to speakers – could be various combinations depending on the amps and speakers. Basically each is a 2 core cable, with a +ve and -ve. Hopefully it’ll be speakons both ends in which case 1+ and 1- need to be connected at each speakon – ie 1+ to 1+, 1- to 1-. If you have Jacks, then the tip will be +ve, and the sleeve -ve. If XLR, pin 1 will be the -ve, and pin 2 the +ve….

                                            Hope that helps – if you need more help, post the makes and model numbers of each piece of kit for me and I will go and check the connectors etc…raaaraaaraaa

                                            #1174032
                                            junglist1234
                                            Participant
                                              noname;226632 wrote:
                                              The pics look wierd because the tuning frequency is wrong – you should tune your boxes to a value slightly higher than the Free air resonance frequency (Fs) given in the driver specs. You do this so the unnatural peak in response at resonance is damped by the air mass of the box and ports (your box response will have a steep rolloff below the tuning frequency, essentially damping the tendency to resonate inherent in the driver).

                                              The response curves show a box tuned way above the right frequency for the driver, resulting in a large peak in response at the tuning frequency – this is very bad (the main reason for a box in the first place is to make the response as flat as possible – your speakers and amps should be as linear as possible, meaning they should introduce as little alteration in the character of the sound reproduced as possible.)

                                              You wire it:

                                              //////////////////////////////////////////// |—3–Amp—4—Bass Speakers
                                              \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |
                                              Decks—>—-Mixer–1–EQ—2–Xover|—3–Amp—4—Mid Speakers
                                              \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |
                                              //////////////////////////////////////////// |—3–Amp—4—Top speakers

                                              The Actual wires needed will need you posting the makes and models of each piece of kit – what I would generally expect to find on the equipment is:

                                              1) Mixer to Eq – 2 cables, one for left and one for right channel would likely be female XLR to either male XLR, or 1/4″ TRS jack (the XLR cables are wired with pins: 1=Earth, 2=Hot signal, 3=Cold signal… If wired to a TRS jack, it will be wired: T=Hot signal, R=Cold signal, S=Earth. If one end is not balanced line – likely the mixer if any, then just short the cold signal to the earth one at the non-balanced line end)
                                              2) Eq to X-over, again one for each channel likely female XLR to male XLR, wired as above.
                                              3) X-Over to amps – one stereo pair per frequency band (ie lo, mid and hi). Should be Female XLR to male XLR, but may be female XLR to 1/4″ jack – see the wiring for 1 for wiring info. You will have 3 pairs (ie 6 cables)
                                              4) Amps to speakers – could be various combinations depending on the amps and speakers. Basically each is a 2 core cable, with a +ve and -ve. Hopefully it’ll be speakons both ends in which case 1+ and 1- need to be connected at each speakon – ie 1+ to 1+, 1- to 1-. If you have Jacks, then the tip will be +ve, and the sleeve -ve. If XLR, pin 1 will be the -ve, and pin 2 the +ve….

                                              Hope that helps – if you need more help, post the makes and model numbers of each piece of kit for me and I will go and check the connectors etc…raaaraaaraaa

                                              Aah well that first part made a lot of sense to me. The fs of the drivers we have is 45Hz so I’m guessin I should tune em to about 50-55Hz?

                                              Yeh this is all the inputs/outputs for all the stuff we have:

                                              EQ-Phono in/out

                                              Xover- 3 Female XLR inputs/6 Male XLR Outputs (Its got other stuff but we wont need to use it for now I dont think)

                                              Amps-Just normal amp stuff. Phono in/Bare Speaker wire out

                                              This is how I assume it should be done but I’m probably wrong.

                                              DecksMixerEQXoverAmpBass bin
                                              AmpMids
                                              AmpTweeters

                                              Thing is I’m sure XLR-Phono wouldnt work coz theres 3 wires comin out of the XLR but only 2 wires that lead into phonos???????????????

                                              cheers for all the help, noname. Your a useful chap:wink:

                                              #1174033
                                              junglist1234
                                              Participant

                                                Its-official!–I-now-have-just-about-enuff-knowledge-to-build-and-run-a-very
                                                -small,-very-basic-sound-system:love:

                                                Couldn’t-have-done-it-without-you-lot.–You’ve-been-rete-helpful-and-pv-has-
                                                been-the-1st-place-i-come-when-I’m-stuck.

                                                Spent-all-yesterday-cuttin-the-wood-i-need-for-my-mid-box-and-tomorrow-i’m
                                                gunna-build-the-actual-box-and-fit-the-drivers-into-it.–also-need-to-make
                                                some-phono-to-xlr-cables-and-then-I’m-all-set!–(Also-need-some-better-amps
                                                but-that-can-wait-for-now.)

                                                Cheers-you-lot.
                                                As-far-as-I-can-tell-to-make-a-single-channel-phono-to-XLR-cable-you-
                                                connect-pin-1-and-pin-3-to-the-screen-of-the-phono-and-then-you-
                                                connect-pin-2-to-the-main-middle-bit-of-the-phono.-(Dont-know-the-
                                                technical-name-of-the-middle-bit)

                                                I-think-noname-might-have-posted-a-description-of-how-to-do-it-on-this
                                                thread-before-but-I-can’t-remember.–If-he-has-then-ignore-this-bit.

                                                I-think-I’m-gunna-do-it-the-ghetto-way-by-just-snipping-a-phono-cable
                                                in-half-and-then-connectin-the-wires-to-the-XLR.
                                                Someone-correct-me-if-I’m-wrong.

                                                Cheers

                                                #1174034
                                                junglist1234
                                                Participant

                                                  Its-official!–I-now-have-just-about-enuff-knowledge-to-build-and-run-a-very
                                                  -small,-very-basic-sound-system:love:

                                                  Couldn’t-have-done-it-without-you-lot.–You’ve-been-rete-helpful-and-pv-has-
                                                  been-the-1st-place-i-come-when-I’m-stuck.

                                                  Spent-all-yesterday-cuttin-the-wood-i-need-for-my-mid-box-and-tomorrow-i’m
                                                  gunna-build-the-actual-box-and-fit-the-drivers-into-it.–also-need-to-make
                                                  some-phono-to-xlr-cables-and-then-I’m-all-set!–(Also-need-some-better-amps
                                                  but-that-can-wait-for-now.)

                                                  Cheers-you-lot.
                                                  As-far-as-I-can-tell-to-make-a-single-channel-phono-to-XLR-cable-you-
                                                  connect-pin-1-and-pin-3-to-the-screen-of-the-phono-and-then-you-
                                                  connect-pin-2-to-the-main-middle-bit-of-the-phono.-(Dont-know-the-
                                                  technical-name-of-the-middle-bit)

                                                  I-think-noname-might-have-posted-a-description-of-how-to-do-it-on-this
                                                  thread-before-but-I-can’t-remember.–If-he-has-then-ignore-this-bit.

                                                  I-think-I’m-gunna-do-it-the-ghetto-way-by-just-snipping-a-phono-cable
                                                  in-half-and-then-connectin-the-wires-to-the-XLR.
                                                  Someone-correct-me-if-I’m-wrong.

                                                  Cheers

                                                  p.s–I’ll-post-some-pics-of-the-system-when-its-done.-Its-not-rete-
                                                  impressive-but-it-will-do-till-we-can-afford-somethin-better-(so-when-I’ve
                                                  got-a-job)

                                                  (My-spacebar-has-broken)

                                                  #1174002
                                                  noname
                                                  Participant
                                                    sheffield-junglist;226765 wrote:
                                                    Aah well that first part made a lot of sense to me. The fs of the drivers we have is 45Hz so I’m guessin I should tune em to about 50-55Hz?

                                                    Yeh this is all the inputs/outputs for all the stuff we have:

                                                    EQ-Phono in/out

                                                    Xover- 3 Female XLR inputs/6 Male XLR Outputs (Its got other stuff but we wont need to use it for now I dont think)

                                                    Amps-Just normal amp stuff. Phono in/Bare Speaker wire out

                                                    This is how I assume it should be done but I’m probably wrong.

                                                    DecksMixerEQXoverAmpBass bin
                                                    AmpMids
                                                    AmpTweeters

                                                    Thing is I’m sure XLR-Phono wouldnt work coz theres 3 wires comin out of the XLR but only 2 wires that lead into phonos???????????????

                                                    cheers for all the help, noname. Your a useful chap:wink:

                                                    Thats pretty much it – the phono to XLR’s will only be wired pin 1 and pin 2 on the XLR end (they will likely short pin 3 to pin 1, but not always). That way they are wiring the signal of the phono plug (ie the center pin) to pin 2 of the XLR (which would be the “hot” of a balanced line cable), and the sleeve of the phono to pin 1 (which is the signal ground of a balanced line). Pin 3 (which is the “cold”, or inverted signal in a balanced line) is not used, and is normally shorted straight to ground (pin 1)…

                                                    Always happy to help though (you can PM me when you do a party if you want though – I live a ways from sheffield, but if I’m around the area I could handle a Jungle night out :wink:…. raaaraaaraaa)

                                                    #1174035
                                                    junglist1234
                                                    Participant
                                                      noname;228539 wrote:
                                                      Thats pretty much it – the phono to XLR’s will only be wired pin 1 and pin 2 on the XLR end (they will likely short pin 3 to pin 1, but not always). That way they are wiring the signal of the phono plug (ie the center pin) to pin 2 of the XLR (which would be the “hot” of a balanced line cable), and the sleeve of the phono to pin 1 (which is the signal ground of a balanced line). Pin 3 (which is the “cold”, or inverted signal in a balanced line) is not used, and is normally shorted straight to ground (pin 1)…

                                                      Always happy to help though (you can PM me when you do a party if you want though – I live a ways from sheffield, but if I’m around the area I could handle a Jungle night out :wink:…. raaaraaaraaa)

                                                      Cheers man. yeh I’ll definately pm you when we’ve got our first party!

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