this is so-called “citizen journalism in action” – people doing it themselves, speaking the truth about their own drug use and how many don’t actually wish to stop their problematic drug use or only do so grudgingly. I certainly can’t post anything like the accurate, detailed info about opiate addiction as I’ve never been down that road myself.

however, this is the legacy the rave scene has left this country and needs to be out in the open. what is on here is certainly not coming from govt propaganda spin but people speaking their own minds and using what rights to free speech remain in this nation.

not really as even some support may help others. What else are we to do – hypocritcally censor drug-related posts like what DSI does? this site as a whole doesn’t exactly glorify excessive drug use anyway…

incidentally none of the original PV crew are or were regular opiate or crack users. I have done these things maybe 6 times in 17 years

The threads on addictive class A drugs were started by users worldwide finding this site (presumably through google?) and automatically assuming (not surprisingly!) that it would be tolerant of such discussion.

if anything the open honest discussions may have a positive effect as they are clearly deterring some more intelligent people from problematic drug use and getting them back into patterns of more positive lifestyles.

the three new addicts I know don’t read here as they don’t have the stabilty or resources in life to find a computer and read this site (its not even blocked in the library!) or maybe not even the reading skills. Maybe if they could it would change their minds. A surprising amount of people just lurk here and have a lot of respect for the site but feel too shy to contribute because its known for having “intelligent discussion” and they have trouble with their English (despite being natives!) or more commonly their attention span – a lot of people are dumbed down and just refuse to read or contribute to longer discussions.

this may sound harsh but if people choose to use the site in this matter I no longer care – even if it means ultimately feds collectively judge us on this behaviour and close down more events. I’ve said for 6 or more years this could happen and people didn’t listen to the bad news, now its happening.

if it means the govt “win” then so be it. We’ve had 20 fucking years of almost “tolerated” drug use (well at least cops doing jack shit about it) to sort ourselves out and for many people its been a EPIC FAIL…

erowid seems to be full of angst-ridden Yanks. and if the only professional advice is “cut down your use” and people refuse to listen maybe thats the job of the NHS and even the Police via the Drugs Action teams

how are you suggesting we deal with it anyway? censoring people?

no. whilst the info is out there what I am also saying that some already have net access, they choose to ignore the positive info sites like this due to lack of attention span or that its not “cool” to debate the more serious issues.

others, particularly in East Anglia, simply don’t yet have the life skills to get any of the available info and are too stubborn to do so until the feds/NHS rein them in.

OTOH more intelligent youths from that same crew have taken the advice here it on board and actually walked away from the rave scene because of stuff said on here and their own personal experiences! I know of one young couple who have done this… people virtually half my age are permanently giving up parties and concentrating on their own lives.

And to put it bluntly, if this site went 404 (offline) tomorrow as Dr B had more important things do do (like raise his daughter) and better things to spend his money on than paying the hosting fees (kids are expensive) I would be slightly gutted about it but it wouldn’t be the end of the world despite putting 10 years of my life into it. All good things come to an end sometime.

I would say though I’m willing to stay here for as long as this site remains popular and isn’t too much of a liability to any of us keep running (for instance us getting actual warrants from the cops to divulge personal info). Even if content (despite our best efforts) does damage what remains of the party scene, IMO its minimal compared to stuff going on elsewhere or actually occuring at dance music events which we have no control over.

Anyway I don’t have a rig or get involved in events any more and nor do many of my closest mates other than Biotech crew so I have little to lose in that respect. of course they may have other views but I think the cops have finally realised the Biotech stack isn’t going to turn up in the forest again.

Everyone else I know even from the people I met a year or two ago has gone uni or had kids. Perhaps due to our ages we are being too nostalgic about how everyone “stayed true to the scene” – in the 90s people did for a fair few years but now its just a few years – also in EA people start young, and burn out quicker.

But I really don’t think the cops close down our events or restrict their advertising just because of chance comments on the internet – these are more a “last straw” thing.

They do so also because of problems at other events across the country, even hundreds of miles away. it takes cops as much as 2 years to process the intelligence from a big event or incident and then circulate it outside the force area.

By this timescale, the cops would be dealing with the report from the Davidstow teknival, plus the murders at the garage / grime event in Ipswich in 2006, although Zest got shot up because the owner was told by both Suffolk and the Met that gangs might cause trouble but was stubborn and kept the event going.

With other genres the drugs angle would come to fore more, especially as the legal events in TVP area (Beacon) have been heavily overloaded and shown evidence of overt drugs use (as well as a fair few incidents of violence).

That said I think if cops had concerns over the events numbers or felt that you needed a TENS (perhaps with the 500 people limit) instead they should have had the balls to say this upfront or refuse the event at the start rather than string people along, unless they are going back to the old tactics of trying to exhaust the more stubborn promoters financial resources (a counterproductive strategy as its exactly what got the gangsters funding raves in the 90s!)

yep you do get cops like that, back in the day Ali “G” Dizaiei (that dude in the news) was in TVP, he was the superintendent for South Oxfordshire division and he was very lenient on raves in that area. However people then took the piss and there was a backlash and lockdown.

a lot of it is down to how you represent yourselves on places like here and the crowds you attract…..

The cops may look like bumbling idiots but they are smarter these days and profile all the people and crews involved in parties. one thing of credit to the thames valley ravers on this site is they have consistently come across as sensible and well mannered…

but with free parties its always a gamble. East Anglia went from acceptance to zero tolerance in a space of months, and decent crews were targeted along with stupid ones.

TVP also tend to use a “intelligence led” approach (i.e more surveillance and monitoring) but also give people a fair few chances before they get heavy (probably why I am not in jail today :laugh_at:). when they do it is just as unpleasant. Look on our search for Wokingham rave bust 2004 and you will see.

bear in mind if you attend or in particular organise raves you will be photographed at least once by a evidence gathering team.

from my own personal experience once TVP know you are “involved with raves” you get put on a “shit list” and the amounts of “random” stop and searches increase, whether on foot or in a car.

They were doing this in the 90s, but bear in mind there is a lot more CCTV about and digital comms what can’t be picked up by scanners.

I got arrested for abstracting electricity at a squat in 2004. When booked in I was allocated the same record number from an arrest in 1994 and overhead the cops talking about “local intelligence record”. my mates who got nicked with me were shown photos of loads of raves they had been at and they said “we are watching all of you and your activities on websites.”

my friends were then in their late 20s/early 30s, outside the normal target age range for random stop checks, but it seemed that whenever they went in town in places like Reading they would be stopped for any petty little thing. It was done quite subtly but clearly it was to ascertain whether their drug use was merely personal or whether dealing in town was going on and if this was intended to fund the rave.

people are also monitored to see if they have jobs or not. If you work regularly the cops are lenient, if you are unemployed or taking benefits but can afford a rig / car / nice house they start wondering “where does the money come from?” (more recently this has got certain people in my new ends in various amounts of trouble).

nothing will change until the younger generation slowly become more sensible about drug use to the point where drugs are tolerated/decriminalised by all as usage is no longer viewed to be a problem, and stop making the same mistakes many of my generation did. sadly you are also being punished for my generations greed and stupidity. Especially where you live.

For that I can only apologise and at least put my hand on my heart and say for 10 years I managed to keep everything on a level whilst raving, was nearly always in full time employment and never committed serious crime to fund my partying or out of spite, even the cops realised that

now the ball is in your court, and realistically I think we are still 30-50 years away from this – its still worth doing IMO even if the victory is you can buy MDMA from the pharmacy at the old folks home or day centre…

in the case I mention these are three lads aged about 18-20.

They all actually do want to stop – particularly after being alienated from their friends, landing up in HMP etc . One thing stopping them is a feeling of hopelessness, particularly after the party crew they were in has been twice heavily busted and all their events locked down.

In fact the third one isn’t a heavy user of the addictive class A’s but does them because he’s “got in with the wrong crowd”.

Its precisely these sorts of people for whom having others not from their ends to chat to may help – not saying it would be a miracle cure but I was a young lad myself not too long ago what could easily have gone down the wrong route, and sites like this can give you positive inspiration, and in the light of the thread I started on the main forum it does seem the younger lot are coping very well with the England free party lockdown!

but the other issue is they don’t have regular access, and in the current “Norfolk” culture its still seen as “geeky” or “trying to hard” to do anything other than put on parties or take loads of drugs (that said we do seem to be picking up a lot of the ravers from that area, even if they learned the hard way..

I see that another local crew has actually subscribed to plug their benefit rave on here, despite all the risks (the feds will give them a chance as they’ve got a sort of informal deal that all the rave crews can do it licensed in the Arena)

I’ve mentioned the issues with binge drinking a few times on the drugs forum, quoting from news articles etc. Its become a big problem in my area with all the legal raves being pushed back into clubs and the drugs enforcment on party drugs at least being relatively successful.. the atmosphere has changed in the last few years – a rave night in a pub/club is by no means that dangerous but it is defo more aggressive than it once was.

on topic..
i think this is a good website, with lots of sensible advice, some not so sensible, but considering the damage done by facefuck, myspaz and bebo, sj and all the rest i really dont think see what benefit there would be to remove or censore this place. it may not all be about free partys, but thats cause most of its done by phone or pm now as a lot of users have met or know each other now. its also a good way of linking up with like minded people. from all over the place. cant be a bad thing surely.
thats my 2cents anway
:hiding:

incidentally if ravers could deliver any kind of “eco-project” particularly here in the East, I reckon the public perception of them may change drastically

last week someone sent me a link to how some Welsh hippies who had been battling planning permission hassles for their roundhouse finally got approved

it was from the Daily Mail, but the headline said “Lost Middle Class Tribe” (as if they were a persecuted minority), I couldn’t believe what I was actually reading! (normally they take a dim view of people breaking the rules like this..) those Welsh people scored the main victory which is “hearts and minds”…

(If you’ve not read it – I strongly reccomend ‘fight club’ or any other book by him )

from what Glo says this was a revocation of a full PEL with a 1500 capacity because of the posts on here, and then the cops saying “but we’ll let you do a TENS event instead” at a later date

in other words they are saying retrospectively that they didn’t feel the crew could handle a 1500 person event, but IMO they should have said that long before the full PEL was applied for (I expect the Council have pocketed the fee anyway) and before expenses were incurred for promotions.

This was a tactic used against the 1990s promoters in London/SE/East to try sap their finances – eventually it led to real gangsters increasingly funding the events and the record shops and the scene being funded by drugs – people ended up getting shot because of this.

being a Londoner I definitely think its a underhand tactic inherited from the met… you’ve got the “above board” “Safe and Sound” guidelines (the public verision of which appears to have mysteriously disappeared from the metpol website) then the “whispers in the canteen” tactics showing the bumpkin forces how to make the events as hard to put on as possible.

that said I think the policy nationwide is to treat all dance music events as high risk for drugs, crime and violence (not from the attendees – from local scum what prey on the people going in!) and herd them into one or two venues only in each county and nanny these as much as possible (for instance Studio 3 in Suffolk, where you are watched by the “men in black” bouncers for the slightest sign of anyone what may be doing drugs)

I think even the townie nightlife economy is under threat.

Binge is spot on with his assessment of how much more trouble occurs in town centre venues, however the “normals” at my work are mentioning the pubs and clubs are emptier these days yet the incident counts remain constant

(I don’t even think alcohol is the cause of all of them, its the sheer raw anger that todays society puts into people!) this will bring things to a point where all the late licenses are quietly rolled back – either by the dying days of this Government or the New Tories – also I suspect alcohol tax may increase in order to decrease fuel tax as a populist gesture…

we are entering a new Puritan age (they never gave up power here in Suffolk anyway) so maybe this site is more important than ever just to give an outlet to share our thoughts, music and art?