@General Lighting 376865 wrote:

“Developing” countries have got to a much better economic state than England by taking a hardline on drugs.

Both US and Portugals liberalism have been countered by a backlash from the conservative faith groups. The Dutch, who are a pragmatic and intelligent race of people, have chosen to vote away their progressive government in recent elections.

Its perfectly legal and much more socially acceptable to ride a bicycle in this country but there are some parts of the nation where you will get a lot of abuse and/or even be put in physical danger by others – people are much more willing to take matters into their own hands against those doing anything they disagree with.

There was a portugese girl on here a few years back who said “yes, drugs are “tolerated” in her country” – but her parents had put their feet down and said she should have a drugs test at the family home every semester if she expected them to fund her University studies! She was otherwise well treated, so she accepted her parents views and left Partyvibe. I got the impression that sort of thing was commonplace in the country.

I don’t think I need to explain at length what the religious wingnuts of the USA are capable of (bear in mind nice Mr Obama might only last one term and he will do well to stay alive!)

On a wider scale, there’s also a good chance humankind will fuck up the planet to such an extent it renders even the imperfect freedoms of today impossible – there will be little time left to get high when everyone has to toil in the fields and factories just to have sufficient resources to feed their family..

heh a pretty bleak outlook, i can see you are a pessimist. Although I can definately see a worldwide resources disaster on the cards, and the bible belt will continue to whine about drugs/gays/sex/abortion, IMO it will only be a phase (albeit maybe a very long phase). Humans learn from their mistakes and I find it hard to ignore the massive progress society has been making the last few centuries despite problems with consumerism and greed. One day we’ll strike a perfect balance with our environment and the religious/conservative stranglehold on the world will be a distant memory.

Many people will probably disagree with my sentiments and assume we will blow ourselves up fighting over the last barrel of oil, but I’ll just consider them doom-and-gloom self hating humans and they can consider me a fluffy hippy pissing rainbows and shitting unicorns in a dreamworld where everyone around the world holds hands and sings ‘wouldnt it be nice if everyone was nice’

Anyway i guess my point is only time will tell, but i fear the amount of time required will be far too great for either one of us to say ‘i told you so’ :crazy_dru

organised religion does not have long term survival potential in a world where information is expanding exponentially

and i think you’ll find the trends you notice are just deviations from the mean. Thermal noise. Society cant just make an adjustment it always overshoots, then backlashes, then overshoots some more, etc. Society is building up to a backlash at the nanny state and parties will be back in full swing in good time.
Again time will tell but in your last response you’ve confirmed my suspicions that you are a human loathing pessimist (especially if you think extinction of the species is the best case scenario) so i wont bother to try and change your mind

enjoy wallowing in your sense of impending doom and nostalgia of the good old days when life was worth living ;P

yes, I have no problem in saying that I think a lot (but not all) of humans are self destructive scum who haven’t really done a lot of good for the planet, and we’d be better off without some of them. Thats what modern politics and warfare are all about anyway, just that polticians and soldiers disagree over who should survive… The bomb and the bullet is already dealing very effectively with the more warlike sections of humanity anyway across the globe. there is unfortunate collateral damage, but such is life.

Ironically some of those who have done good things actually have been influenced positively by the discipline of strong societys/governments and faith groups! Organised religion may simply merge into governments with more emphasis on disciplined (but multicultural) communities, same as how SE Asian countries are run. People in Singapore, when questioned about quality of life, often give as high a rating as liberal European countries!

BTW the kind of “nanny state” the rest of society (not just a dwindling minority of drug users) is rising up against is in fact the progressive tolerant culture that developed since the 1980s which allowed us to get away with drug use and parties etc (now derided as “political correctness” and a “namby pamby approach to law and order”.) There is no consenus supporting any other late night economy other than the right to have the traditional British pub open to normal licensing hours of 23:00 (and as a CAMRA member I’ve been made aware even that is under threat).

The shakeout in environmental awarness and relocalisation progressive people are welcoming will also mean that buildings and land will be more jealously guarded by communities and less available for frivolous uses, and more emphasis is placed on people contributing their bit to society rather than just hedonism.

BTW I don’t think there’s impending doom in my lifetime, the future is survivable, and life for me is far better (particularly in financial terms and terms of stability) than it was in the 1980s or 1990s. I’d rather be in the 21st century than back in the 20th! Drugs and parties are only a small aspect of my life..

It might not be as much “fun” but we all need to grow up sometimes. Perhaps the impending clampdowns on mephedrone and other party drugs, whilst not eliminating them entirely, will make people focus more on other aspects of life..

Did anyone read The Sun today? They claim teens are mixing drone with crystal meth to achieve a more potent high.

The amount of shit they come out with is unbelievable! :crazy:

@MisterDuck 376885 wrote:

you sound like a once-idealist now bitter self-labeled “realist”, the kind of people you are continually talking about as backlash ex-ravers

i’m not alien to the idea of pragmatism, but you have to keep your principles, or you lose your way. you just seem to have lost touch with progressive thinking, and by progressive i essentially mean empathetic. sorry just that’s my opinion.

the rave scene wasn’t progressive, it was libertarian and based on drugs, hedonism and a certain amount of crminality and intimidation of others in society (not just breaking drugs laws which is a non-crime)

I stand by my opinions and will not budge – I personally don’t care for shit what happens in 100 years as I will be brown bread then, but am dealing with the reality of survival today. yes there is a limit to empathy and compassion and I have reached mine and so have many others in the real world. too many people, young and old, are acting like muppets and need to sort their lifestyles the fuck out or life will get ever worse.

the entire music/party culture and even the existence of sites like this as well as the transport of drugs (irrespective of their legality) depend on the availability of abundant free energy and freedom of movement of people and goods. These things are under threat – not by government but by the reality of the planet – and no amount of idealism will stop this.

@General Lighting 376893 wrote:

the rave scene wasn’t progressive, it was libertarian and based on drugs, hedonism and a certain amount of crminality and intimidation of others in society (not just breaking drugs laws which is a non-crime)

.

Erm, and music. Goods drugs, good music and hedonism. I was there from the age of 14 and i am not too sure what you mean by criminality and intimidation. Certainly not to the level of anyone considering it like on a par with the drus and hedonism anyhow.:smile:

@General Lighting 376896 wrote:

again, I no longer care. they do their best, and might change things but at present is not good enough. the only thing really changing the world is warfare and that shows no end.

at present? thats got nothing to do with it, progression is gradual, so therefore it’s better than nothing.

we’re not going to agree… i think you’re unnecessarily cynical. there are plenty of people a lot older than you who still hold their principles and values and strive for change. pessimism hardly helps anything, does it?

im not saying you should be involved in activism or whatever, but to not care completely… ah i don’t know mate, it seems awfully negative.

just don’t try and discredit those who do push for change. i strongly believe we live ina more equal and progressive society thanks to these people. it’s not equal and progressive, but it is MORE so than 100 years ago.

same applies to the next 100 years, just cos you’ve given up on it doesn’t mean we all have.

@General Lighting 376726 wrote:

it doesn’t matter to the media and the authorities. They have the power, they have the bulk of public opinion behind them (the majority community of non recreational drug users) and can do what the fuck they want.

Also that level of crazy poly-drug use is commonplace amongst younger teenagers. Many of them walk away from sites like this as “too boring and sensible” as soon as the older folks start taking them to task for overuse and and feel they are indestructible.

whilst responsible 20/30-something drug users with families/careers etc and stable lifestyles like ourselves do exist we are increasingly becoming a dwindling minority. I know more people my age group what are turning to faith groups and conservative lifestyles (especially to gain stability in their lifes as the economy declines) than wanting to continue partying…

Sorry but i find this post extremely patronising, and your making a lot of assumtions about teenagers in general.

@Buzz 376901 wrote:

Sorry but i find this post extremely patronising, and your making a lot of assumtions about teenagers in general.

I wasn’t just talking about teenagers but the whole age range including my own age group, going by my own personal experience.

TBH the younger folk on this forum appear to be exception to the rule – bear in mind I have had a large network of friends people outside the rave scene of all ages, and am relating things I have seen with my own eyes in recent years.

A couple of years ago there were lots of teenagers and young adults from my own area (East Anglia) on this site, and I know for a fact some of them have got into problematic patterns of drug use and have suffered badly for it. to be fair some of the people here (particularly the girls) tried to pass on the good advice to their peers but they were ignored. Many of these girls and also some of the more “sensible” lads from that circle have now since stopped going to raves anyway and settled down, and they are way younger than myself!

A lot of people my own age group (30s to 40s) have been complete muppets with drugs and it is because of that your generation has to put up wiht the clampdowns. Some of the people of my age – and older! – are already a lost generation who refuse to address their behaviour despite the expensive intervention of the despised “nanny state”.

it is in fact only because of people like yourself, Josh, Misterduck and others who can self regulate their drug use and have an honest discussion that I remain on this site, or I would have serious moral misgivings about contributing to here.

if everyone else was like that there wouldn’t be half the social problems what exist in this country….

@joshd96320 376913 wrote:

it doesnt make you feel positive, but perhaps you are at least not cheating yourself,

Not cheating yourself (or others) is a very positive thing! Even the demise of the human race could not happen overnight nor be a particularly quick thing. World War II (including the atomic bombs) made hardly a dent in the global population, nor will World War III. Our generations are hardly going to die out tomorrow.

It is also definitely a case of realism. If your opponents are stronger than you (even if they have “cheated” and took steroids and stimulants they can still win the race!

At present amongst my peers (other than those what have always been alternative) I see no antidote to consumerism, to car culture, and even less tolerance for diversity – :hopeless: (I have to interact with “normal people” and don’t just surround myself with ravers…)

a government never sees hedonism as something positive, as it is not productive.

This is actually a bit unfair although its understandable people don’t realise this..

For all his many faults, Tony Blair was the first Prime Minister I remember in my lifetime to even acknowledge the value of the music, arts and creative industries of this country. OK it was linked with spin and better economic times but it did happen (cool brittannia). It is now emerging that his views on drugs were in fact suprisingly progressive compared to those of Gordon Brown.

the music and media industry of the 1990s was very productive (as well as hedonistic) as it brought in tax revenues and once created many more paying jobs, ironically its todays “free speech/free information” download culture what devalued it!

Even the war was as much due to angry motorists and the fuel protest of 2000 than Blair really wanting to set in motion events which have cost thousands of lifes and permanently destroyed global relations, but the prices of oil went up not because of taxes but OPEC countries who knew about approaching peak oil raising the prices…

yes and its not always noticed by those in other regions. In East Anglia there is a centuries-old tradition of dissent, radical politics and standing up to authorities – but this means the authorities act harder when they need to make a point.

@joshd96320 376913 wrote:

nah, they read it, theyre fully aware of the risks, they just wanna do one more bomb than their mate to look bigger. this is what you get in a society of oneupmanship amongst her own children.

i had wondered about this myself for about 4 years but was actually trying “not to believe this” and to be “optimistic!” I had noticed an element of “hard man culture” amongst EA ravers but didn’t think it was as bleak as this.

TBH I think I have been very diplomatic in not saying exactly what I think about the deceased lads’ and their peer groups atttitude to drugs, just in case their bereaved relatives read this site or even decide to post here (and it wouldn’t be the first time either).

All I will say is because of this greedy/stupid drugs culture not only have families been ripped apart, but the full force of the nanny state and the media is being brought down on both mephedrone and the whole drugs/alcohol culture/late night economy just before an election, with the consensus of three parties and the wider public being more towards restriction than tolerance!

@Raj 376944 wrote:

tbh as a legal high for so long its an utterly wasted opportunity to prove that users could self moderate and be sensible about how they took it…

+1

And people wonder why older ravers are “bitter” or “cynical”?

Its not even a case of being “patronising” due to age but having seen this situation repeated before.

During “better” times of 10 years ago a lot of posters on here would have still been in junior school – where I hope they were optimistic about all the cool toys and better computers what could communicate with one another and play back video and music, rather than knowing anything at all about drugs at that tender age! (I didn’t know anything about drugs when I was 8 or 9 although I knew all about racial tension and IRA terrorism..)

Back then there were also calls to legalise both cannabis (which as we know went class C for a few years) and pills (professor Nutt has been around for a fairly long time).

There was plenty of accurate info about pills available by the mid 1990s, I helped collate and distribute some of it, and although the long term mental effects of cannabis were still not as well known even on the street it was known if you blazed too much you would become lazy, demotivated and a bit paranoid.

also drugs enforcement against posession was (and still is) lax, by the mid 1990s the penalties for posession of anything (including class As) was just a caution, drugs might as well have been legal as cops didn’t bother you too much!

and yet again people overdid them and then ran to the NHS for help… :hopeless::you_crazy

[HTML][/HTML]@Iacchus 376694 wrote:

never taken an upper and a trip together? you’re missing out

nah mate dont get me wrong, i love uppers and trips (especially mandy and acid <3 ) but amphet is just fucking wrong.