@General Lighting 376700 wrote:

this was the case until the 1920s but people still overdosed.. there’d be slightly less but you’d still get greedy folk. The only advantage is some of the revenue could be ring fenced to pay for the NHS..

IMO what is holding back legalisation in Europe isn’t just religious or political dogma but the reality that the bulk of the populace do not actually take drugs at all, but still have to pay their taxes towards funding the public health service, so idiots what overdo it cost them money for no gain…

I don’t think that’s true, I know so many people who think 1-2 grams of mephedrone is ‘the usual amount’ and have no idea that the suggested dose is 125-250mg. This is true for most drugs people just eyeball lines and pop as many pills as they want until they’ve had too much and are eating their face off.. just because they buy their shit from a dealer who doesnt consider it his responsibility to educate the users

yeah people overdosed back when drugs were available from pharmacies but proper production, controlled distribution and education would reduce the current problems significantly. Yes some people would still die but that’s the price you pay for civil liberty.
People still overdose on alcohol and die on a daily basis, and people eat and drink and smoke themselves to an early grave costing the NHS billions, the only difference with drugs is that conservative types think they are somehow less moral and the rest of the population think they are more dangerous, thanks to unscientific media bullshit.
I wouldnt mind so much if alcohol was illegal too, it’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off. And dont even get me started on the harm that drugs legislation causes to society by ruining peoples careers and creating drugs gangs.

if todays Europeans actually cared about others’ civil liberties (particularly groups whose activities they do not agree with) we wouldn’t be seeing the kind of election results I’ve seen across the EU. As the economic depression bites further, all they care about are their nearest and dearest and the pound/euro in their pockets. I know more and more otherwise tolerant/progressive people who are increasingly fucked off with the “amount of money spent on clearing up after drugs and alcohol use” and who support increasing restrictions on legal and illegal drugs including alcohol and tobacco.

@Iacchus 376708 wrote:

I don’t think that’s true, I know so many people who think 1-2 grams of mephedrone is ‘the usual amount’ and have no idea that the suggested dose is 125-250mg. This is true for most drugs people just eyeball lines and pop as many pills as they want until they’ve had too much and are eating their face off.. just because they buy their shit from a dealer who doesnt consider it his responsibility to educate the users

the same dose is actually applicable to amfetamines – but there are resources like this site which has been around for 12 years, independent of cops/feds/government and the advice is still ignored. in the early days of mephedrone you had (and in many case still do) order it online and so the access to independent info is already there!

The ultra conservatives, particulalry those linked to faith groups, would restrict or ban alcohol too…

TBH the whole mephedrone phenomenon is a fucking epic train wreck, where the so-called “alternative” community has shown itself wholly incapable once again of self-regulation, leading the nanny state to pick up the pieces..

cops are looking at the possibility of contamination, the arrests have been on suspicion of supplying controlled substances…

in other parts of the UK there have been allegation that some mephedrone in fact is contaminated with dexamfetamine, BZP, MDMA and other “real” drugs which would of course increase the risk of serious cardiovascular problems (dangerously elevanted heart rate) – I think this might probably be more the case with street dealers (who don’t always bother with “nerdy” stuff such as safe chemical handling, correct labelling and preventing accidental mixing) than online dealers (who must comply with H & S laws to get the stuff through the post, and would hardly want to get sent to jail for posting controlled substances!)

@Mary Jane 376722 wrote:

Given the circumstances of this case, i would be willing to show my arse in B ‘n’ M Bargains window (any, take yer pick) on a sat afternoon if the post mortem states that mephedrone and mephedrone alone caused the deaths. Even if they cained loads i reck its not the case.

it doesn’t matter to the media and the authorities. They have the power, they have the bulk of public opinion behind them (the majority community of non recreational drug users) and can do what the fuck they want.

Also that level of crazy poly-drug use is commonplace amongst younger teenagers. Many of them walk away from sites like this as “too boring and sensible” as soon as the older folks start taking them to task for overuse and and feel they are indestructible.

whilst responsible 20/30-something drug users with families/careers etc and stable lifestyles like ourselves do exist we are increasingly becoming a dwindling minority. I know more people my age group what are turning to faith groups and conservative lifestyles (especially to gain stability in their lifes as the economy declines) than wanting to continue partying…

I read today about the two lads and it’s bad they died but they kind of had it coming tbh.

According to news programs They were extremely pissed, took a load of drone (they blatantly abused it) and then to top it off they took fucking methadone, What the hell did they think would happen?????

@General Lighting 376711 wrote:

the same dose is actually applicable to amfetamines – but there are resources like this site which has been around for 12 years, independent of cops/feds/government and the advice is still ignored. in the early days of mephedrone you had (and in many case still do) order it online and so the access to independent info is already there!

The ultra conservatives, particulalry those linked to faith groups, would restrict or ban alcohol too…

TBH the whole mephedrone phenomenon is a fucking epic train wreck, where the so-called “alternative” community has shown itself wholly incapable once again of self-regulation, leading the nanny state to pick up the pieces..

If you asked any of the ravers I know what the dose of and ‘old’ drug like MDMA is they would not say ‘100mg’, they would say ‘you dab/bomb it till you’re high enough’
yes the information is there on the internet if you know where to look (ive been a drug user for 10 years but only the last couple of years discovered Erowid/PV/Bluelight/PIHKAL/TIHKAL, got scales and started measuring my doses, and im the only person in my group of friends who does that)

Even if you know about these websites its a whole world apart from your drug coming in capsules of one dose and health warnings printed all over the packet and ‘never exceed the stated dose’ mentality drummed in from an early age as with prescription drugs. The fact that most mephedrone users who cain a gram a night themselves have probably never taken more paracetamol than they are supposed to will back up my point.

I’d agree the whole mephedrone thing has been an epic train wreck and the greedy users will be to blame for its inevitable banning, but I think it wouldnt have to be that way if it was released as a new pharmaceutical drugs with proper education, on a society that has been educated at school with the REAL facts about drugs, instead of scare stories that people soon learn are bollocks, resulting in people ignoring all health advice about drugs

I really wish when I bought my first g of ketamine it said on the packet ‘do not mix with alcohol’, or when I bought my first tab of acid it said on the packet ‘do not take alone at a squat party at 7am when you have to drive home at some point that day’
Pretty much all the danger I’ve ever been in from drugs has been to poor education, not from the toxicity of the chemical itself.

Wishful thinking on my part, I know this sort of shift in attitude to drugs would be impossible in one giant step, but it will happen eventually, only not in my lifetime

@GiantMidget 376734 wrote:

According to news programs They were extremely pissed, took a load of drone (they blatantly abused it) and then to top it off they took fucking methadone, What the hell did they think would happen?????

I got into a debate about this at work today as I heard they had been taking Methadone, I think this combined with the booze and drone caused them to fook up. In the end I admitted to dabbling with it as they would only believe what they read in the papers. It would be better saying “2 lads die from a cocktail of drugs” not just blaming the drone.

@Iacchus 376739 wrote:

I’d agree the whole mephedrone thing has been an epic train wreck and the greedy users will be to blame for its inevitable banning, but I think it wouldnt have to be that way if it was released as a new pharmaceutical drugs with proper education, on a society that has been educated at school with the REAL facts about drugs, instead of scare stories that people soon learn are bollocks, resulting in people ignoring all health advice about drugs

I was lucky as we had pretty good drugs education at school during our PSHE (Personal Social & Health Education) lessons. A couple of coppers came in to see us and had a metal brief case type thing that when opened had a load of drugs paraphernalia and the likes behind thick glass for us to look at. Also contained a couple of drugs (not sure if real or not, we were told they were).

Also at the local youth club we were given leaflets about drugs, they took the stance that “you are young and are going to experiment so be safe” and they talked about dosages / effects / how long it will last and how long come up – plateau – come down lasted

@starlaugh 376779 wrote:

Could this see a rise of the better known ‘rugs?

I doubt it as SOCA will be geared up to combat this, plus the whole reason that MDMA became scarce in the first place was that both Eastern and Western governments were working together to successfully stopping the precursor chemicals in Asia. The foreign governments now treat drug manufacture as a global problem rather than tolerating or even colluding in it which is what previously happened, as billions of pounds of global trade are at stake.

By the time mephedrone is banned we may also have a different government, many of whom aren’t much older than myself and saw both the good and bad sides of the rave/drugs culture of the 1990s, and will be much better at stopping a resurgence in it than the “out of touch” older politicians of 20 years ago…

Not long to go till its banned. few months at tops i recon

@starlaugh 376775 wrote:

I got into a debate about this at work today as I heard they had been taking Methadone, I think this combined with the booze and drone caused them to fook up. In the end I admitted to dabbling with it as they would only believe what they read in the papers. It would be better saying “2 lads die from a cocktail of drugs” not just blaming the drone.

I wonder if we would see the same mass media hysteria if the lads had died from Coke, booze and methadone?

tbh I think not. :crazy_diz

tbh, it looks like we’re going to have a hung parliament….which will probably mean that labour with form a pact with the lib dems, i could see this being pretty benefitial to recreational drug users.

@General Lighting 376750 wrote:

Although BZP was nasty stuff and we’re better rid of it, when it was “legal” most packs I saw of it had dosage info (which was regularly ignored and led to people getting into rare old states).

I also remember fairly accurate info about drugs (including good and bad news) being available as long ago as the late 1980s – everything from the “little red school book” to Andrew Tyler’s “Street Drugs”.

in the last 3 years I have been raving with a mostly younger crowd who have access to accurate independent information but choose to ignore it. TBH I think there are deeper and much bleaker psychological reasons involved but its pushing the chances of tolerance and decriminalisation even further away.

In fact I could see things getting more hardline along the lines of SE Asia – of course not the death penalty as EU law discourages it but the Section 37 Hospital Order being increasingly used or amended to force stubborn drug users into abstinence-based treatment.

yes there has always been information ‘available’ but as drugs are either illegal or ‘not for human consumption’, and always dissaproved of by society, people are already in the mindstate of ignoring the rules, whearas in a framework of legal/approved consumption people will be a lot more likely to listen to advice.

Agree developing countries will probably go through englands current phase of ‘ban everything!!!’ but liberalism is the ultimate destination of society, even if it’s not for thousands of years.. there is hope though, countries like USA and portugal have started moving towards decriminalisation of some things..