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November 20, 2009 at 5:28 pm #1185119
@Psil 362948 wrote:
The molecule in question there is Methylone (bk-MDMA) with the O= being the one molecule difference. Facepalms all round!
I’ve also got to say General Lighting, you’ve got it right. People have itchy 999 fingers that go off at the slightest hint that there is something wrong.
hahahah the =O? facepalm indeed.
November 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm #1185493@General Lighting 362930 wrote:
he’s only enforcing the law how its always been enforced. Cops aren’t scientists, but they can infer by suspicion that any small pack of fine powder not in a legitimate pharmaceutical packaging. Their argument is it could be mephedrone, amfet, MDMA or cocaine or heroin..
Drug arrests have always been on suspicion of posession rather than actual posession unless the susbstances have been diverted pharmaceuticals where its obvious what they are.
Drug users are outnumbered 2/3rds by straightheads in Britain, even though we have the highest drug use statistics of the EU. Unfortunately a lot of the non-drug users think the Police are too lenient….
one still cannot help but be irritated by the propaganda and attempts to intimidate the public. Its so very nice not touching drugs any more and not having to worry about such things.
November 20, 2009 at 6:04 pm #1181876@1984 362962 wrote:
one still cannot help but be irritated by the propaganda and attempts to intimidate the public. Its so very nice not touching drugs any more and not having to worry about such things.
its not exactly “propaganda” when there’s five emergency hospital admissions in one area and even this site has checkable and real anecdotes of people suffering some rather nasty (albeit thankfully transient) medical conditions, including one lad presenting to his local hospital.
the stuff is powerful and no less dangerous than “proper” illegal drugs, and was only tolerated through a loophole in the law. Its certainly as strong as amfetamine.
Many normal folk feel that they are being intimidated and dictated to by drug users : not even so much that party drug users are aggressive (this is extremely rare) but they feel they are taking up a lot of NHS resources what could be used say to treat a middle aged or old person what has worked hard and never done drugs in their life or a young person struck down by sudden (but not self-inflicted!) ill health.
I’ve got contacts within NHS who are fairly liberal and open minded but they do their rounds on emergency department and see the aftermath of peoples stupidity and greed and it does harden their hearts, and TBH I cannot blame them.
November 20, 2009 at 6:18 pm #1184401It is propaganda in a way, as they are Bias and will only represent the side of it that shows all the negatives. Specially when they make an effort to lie.
November 20, 2009 at 6:32 pm #1181877@TheLostOne 362974 wrote:
It is propaganda in a way, as they are Bias and will only represent the side of it that shows all the negatives. Specially when they make an effort to lie.
If the negatives of recreational drug use didn’t currently outweigh the positives there would be more EU countries making it legal / decriminalised…. Of course drugs are fun but still way too many people do to much of them..On this website alone half the drugs threads are people my age trying to get off class A drugs such as heroin, then theres younger folk trying to quit ketamine…
even most of the “non problematic users” here seem paradoxically guilty about their substance use…
The rave scene fucked up as many of my generation as it turned into decent people.. or if they recovered they lost a good few productive years of their life…
The way I look at it is people had their fun, they fucked up yet another chance and now they have to live with the stuff becoming class B or C (if its class C its no great hardship anyway..)
I know Portugal has decriminalised but I get the impression many of the people there are too poor to afford drugs and others are more religious than Amy and have really strict parents/families so are too scared to take them even if they are legal.. and drug users in that nation are actually a declining minority….
November 20, 2009 at 7:48 pm #1185494@General Lighting 362968 wrote:
its not exactly “propaganda” when there’s five emergency hospital admissions in one area and even this site has checkable and real anecdotes of people suffering some rather nasty (albeit thankfully transient) medical conditions, including one lad presenting to his local hospital.
propaganda noun
/ˌprɒp.əˈgæn.də/
/ˌprɑː.pə-/ n mainly disapprovinginformation, ideas, opinions or images, often only giving one part of an argument, which are broadcast, published or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people’s opinions
I think your find it is old chap.
November 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm #1181878@1984 362988 wrote:
propaganda noun
I think your find it is old chap.
Sorry but compared to 20 years ago they are actually being lenient.
The DAAT is saying it can cause health problems, and the inspector is saying it could be “deadly”, not that if you take one pill you will drop dead like the old style drug warnings.
The term “deadly substance” was a headline inserted by the BBC.
What do you expect the Police to do anyway? to say to youths “take as many drugs as you want, legal or illegal?” After all they still regulate the use of alcohol (nicking people for drink driving, being violent whilst drunk) and thats a genuine “legal high”.
if their statement is propaganda than a lot of posts on this website, particularly in its early days, could be classed as pro-drugs propaganda as well, at least until people learned the hard way.
That reports a damn sight more accurate (especially with the descriptions of symptoms) than the early days of Ecstasy. A lot of todays media coverage comes from statements given by NHS medical experts as well as the Police..
November 20, 2009 at 8:04 pm #1185496@General Lighting 362991 wrote:
Sorry but compared to 20 years ago they are actually being lenient.
The DAAT is saying it can cause health problems, and the inspector is saying it could be “deadly”, not that if you take one pill you will drop dead like the old style drug warnings.
The term “deadly substance” was a headline inserted by the BBC.
What do you expect the Police to do anyway? to say to youths “take as many drugs as you want, legal or illegal?” After all they still egulate the use of alcohol (nicking people for drink driving, being violent whilst drunk) and thats a genuine “legal high”.
if their statement is propaganda than a lot of posts on this website, particularly in its early days, could be classed as pro-drugs propaganda as well, at least until people learned the hard way.
Yes we now live in a more liberal society, yes it can be deadly. I am just expressing my dissatisfaction with the police and society. The posts on here are possibly not propaganda because they are conversations between people, not statements released to the press. They are however just as one sided and biased as the police are a good proportion of the time.
I don’t expect the police to do anything other than what they are doing, but my point was that I used to expect differently. That is due to my own naivety and is not the fault of anyone else. We all need to grow and all that
November 20, 2009 at 8:12 pm #1181879@1984 362994 wrote:
Yes we now live in a more liberal society, yes it can be deadly. I am just expressing my dissatisfaction with the police and society. The posts on here are possibly not propaganda because they are conversations between people, not statements released to the press. They are however just as one sided and biased as the police are a good proportion of the time.
I don’t expect the police to do anything other than what they are doing, but my point was that I used to expect differently. That is due to my own naivety and is not the fault of anyone else. We all need to grow and all that
The Press, the cops and NHS also use this site to gather their information on how young (and not so young) people are using drugs. (bear in mind I have access to the info on who is here and what they are up to :wink:)
I think the Police make a lot of mistakes, but they are better than their counterparts in many foreign nations, even the European ones.
Bear in mind the only reason the cops/DAAT are even bothering about mephedrone is because of the rise hospital admissions. if it wasn’t causing this problem, it wouldn’t matter for shit to them!
The wider issue here is that the Police are being expected to be social workers and counsellors with a bit of muscle rather than enforcing the law to the letter – perhaps a different approach to recreational drug use might be more “fair”, but it potentially could cost to the taxpayer (including non participants) more than the current status quo..
November 20, 2009 at 8:14 pm #1185497@General Lighting 362998 wrote:
T
The wider issue here is that the Police are being expected to be social workers and counsellors with a bit of muscle rather than enforcing the law to the letter – perhaps a different approach to recreational drug use might be more “fair”, but it potentially could cost to the taxpayer (including non participants) than the current status quo..If only society could have a sensible debate, legalise, tax, everyone wins. Well, it sounds like a nice idea anyway.
Yeah the user data must be interesting, though can you really tell who the cops are? unless they access from the station.
November 20, 2009 at 8:43 pm #1181880@1984 362999 wrote:
If only society could have a sensible debate, legalise, tax, everyone wins. Well, it sounds like a nice idea anyway. [/quote]
the problem is there isn’t a single nation in the world willing to go to full legalisation, or at least not one with any real power. Decriminalisation is not tolerance.
Its like how in some towns cyclists don’t get nicked for riding on the pavements and many do so, despite the fact pedestrians hate this, its a traffic violation, and that occasionally collisions happen. It is not the same as the Council building a proper cycleway and making sure everyone is safe.
There’s a big elephant in the room no one on the pro-drugs communities wants to talk about, but I really get the impression the Netherlands is quietly becoming more hardline and anti-drugs, especially since their democratic elections have returned hard right candidates. Many of the Scandinavian countries have abandoned a liberal approach to drugs as well..
Quote:Yeah the user data must be interesting, though can you really tell who the cops are? unless they access from the station.Cops have been harder to spot in recent years as they use normal civillian or mobile broadband. Certain usage/traffic patterns are of interest, but they could just as easily be a curious civillian, particularly the “silent cybervigilanté” type.
OTOH some other public sector organisations make no attempt whatsoever to “hide their tracks”, I suspect they fully want us to know they are watching.
November 20, 2009 at 8:50 pm #1185499@General Lighting 363013 wrote:
the problem is there isn’t a single nation in the world willing to go to full legalisation, or at least not one with any real power. Decriminalisation is not tolerance.
Its like how in some towns cyclists don’t get nicked for riding on the pavements and many do so, despite the fact pedestrians hate this, its a traffic violation, and that occasionally collisions happen. It is not the same as the Council building a proper cycleway and making sure everyone is safe.
There’s a big elephant in the room no one on the pro-drugs communities wants to talk about, but I really get the impression the Netherlands is quietly becoming more hardline and anti-drugs, especially since their democratic elections have returned hard right candidates. Many of the Scandinavian countries have abandoned a liberal approach to drugs as well..
Cops have been harder to spot in recent years as they use normal civillian or mobile broadband. Certain usage/traffic patterns are of interest, but they could just as easily be a curious civillian, particularly the “silent cybervigilanté” type.
OTOH some other public sector organisations make no attempt whatsoever to “hide their tracks”, I suspect they fully want us to know they are watching.
Good thing society changes so very quickly, who knows what will happen in the future. But only time will tell. At least IQ’s are going up at a steady rate, there is hope!
November 20, 2009 at 10:49 pm #1182139They’re gonna report stuff like this : if you look at the media reports for deaths due to MDMA something like 26 out of 28 were reported in the media – where as there were 265 deaths from Paracetamol and 1 was reported…..
and of course they will arrest someone with white powder – it could be coke / amphet etc until tested…. thats obvious logic
every substance has potential health side effects – Ibruprofen, asprin, Coke, Heroin, alcohol etc – I wonder ‘how much these lads took?’ whether they were double dosing / too early dosing? whether they had any previous underlying mental health isseue, any previous underlyning physical conditions etc…..
this is where the media falls down with not giving a full picture..November 20, 2009 at 11:01 pm #1182140also – I’d never heard it called bubble either – does this mean I’m not down wiv the kids any more>> :cry::cry:
November 20, 2009 at 11:01 pm #1185120must be TG
all the kids call it bubbles up here hahaha
i get texts all the time “sell me buuuuuubbles!”
November 20, 2009 at 11:03 pm #1184046@1984 363016 wrote:
Good thing society changes so very quickly, who knows what will happen in the future. But only time will tell. At least IQ’s are going up at a steady rate, there is hope!
the IQ of both sides at equal pace you must not forget.. always trying to get 1 step ahead, the one thing that truly advances is the complication of it all!
@Tank Girl 363076 wrote:
also – I’d never heard it called bubble either – does this mean I’m not down wiv the kids any more>> :cry::cry:
:laugh_at:
November 20, 2009 at 11:05 pm #1182141@Buzz 363077 wrote:
must be TG
all the kids call it bubbles up here hahaha
i get texts all the time “sell me buuuuuubbles!”
Well I’m gonna stick with the fact I live in suburbia……
shit thats the same as being old …… innit ???
time to hang my head :cry::cry::cry::cry:
November 20, 2009 at 11:45 pm #1181882@Tank Girl 363065 wrote:
every substance has potential health side effects – Ibruprofen, asprin, Coke, Heroin, alcohol etc – I wonder ‘how much these lads took?’ whether they were double dosing / too early dosing? whether they had any previous underlying mental health isseue, any previous underlyning physical conditions etc…..
this is where the media falls down with not giving a full picture..the drugs forums (which tend to collate the media articles and put them in one place) show that most deaths are part of a wider bigger picture of previously fairly healthy younger victims with a history of poly-drug abuse, particularly MDMA, amfet etc.
I’m not a doctor but going by my own experience and that of others I suspect it may also be the case many current 20-somethings are not in the best of physical condition due to lack of exercise – or in some cases they go through alternating stages of lethargy, then intense physical activity mixed with drug binges and this probably puts a strain on the cardiovascular system.
I personally used to be a lot unhealthier in my 20s than now!
BTW the reason why our lot have not heard the the term “bubbles” is because its a local term from some parts of the North and Scotland, possibly the North East of the British Isles.
November 21, 2009 at 5:01 am #1182836massive fix! and i don’t mean of the drug type … i mean of the media type … progession is stamped on through fear … so many things that don’t fit into “sociaty” (sp?) get shuned purely because of the fact it threatens certain power structures … methedron isn’t perticulaly good for you imo … mdma on the other hand isn’t perticulaly that bad for for you …and the things some once/twice time users who have suffered from depression report are ore inspireing …this shit really fucking helped them … but like all the “bad” drugs that actualy kill people it was still outlawed out of fear it might changed things FOR THE BETTER! self controll is the key to this working … people can be fucking so up there own egos they don’t realise this .. but it’s the way we get raised to be … dangerous cycle we are all in .. scares the shit out of me … the mould needs to be broken to progress …
November 21, 2009 at 5:00 pm #1182837November 21, 2009 at 5:05 pm #1185122hippies ftw!
November 22, 2009 at 5:51 am #1185124woooo go psychedelics!
November 25, 2009 at 2:36 am #1185778November 25, 2009 at 3:14 am #1183526that is terrible! 14 yr old doing ket and drone =o
wow, i knew someone in the UK was gonna die soon but i never guessed for it to be a young girl….
RIP
November 25, 2009 at 9:56 am #1184081did u see the front page of the metro today?
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