Limiters

This topic has 24 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated March 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm by Clusterfrog.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

Author

Posts
March 11, 2009 at 8:04 pm #1046793
DaftFader
Participant
ok so i think i need a limiter … i want both my decks to come out at the same volume when turned up … obviosly i can just get the volume knobs and turn them for each cannel on my mixer .. but when in a mix it’s hard to tell how loud the other deck is going to come out at when monitoring on headphones … now what i am not sure about is if i put a limiter on the main out put .. it will limit the peak to a certain lvl lowering the lower level sounds ie. the quiter deck .. or weather it will just limet the peak that goes over the “limet” (i think the latter is more a condencer?). or will i need two limiters on each deck do you think? or some other piece of equipment like a condencer or compresser to do what i want?
March 11, 2009 at 9:59 pm #1194865
cheeseweasel
Participant
A limiter is just a compressor with a very high (ideally infinite) compression ratio, i.e. if the signal level goes over the threshold it will not be allowed to get any louder.

The flat horizontal line is what a limiter will do, the lower ratio lines are compressors (as they compress the dynamic range of the signal above the threshold as opposed to limiting it).

As you can imagine if the [music] signal is being limited it will sound shit because its having the fuck squashed out of it. It can also cause distortion which also sounds shit, hurts peoples ears and damages your speakers.

So using a limiter to just get your decks at the same level isn’t a good idea, its not what the limiter is for. When used in a rig, it’s placed before the crossover to protect the speakers from excessively high signal levels (but in normal operation it shouldn’t be acting on the signal at all).

I guess all you can do is use your meters and ears to match the levels of your decks.
March 11, 2009 at 10:16 pm #1194866
DaftFader
Participant
cheeseweasel;312892 wrote:

A limiter is just a compressor with a very high (ideally infinite) compression ratio, i.e. if the signal level goes over the threshold it will not be allowed to get any louder.

The flat horizontal line is what a limiter will do, the lower ratio lines are compressors (as they compress the dynamic range of the signal above the threshold as opposed to limiting it).

As you can imagine if the [music] signal is being limited it will sound shit because its having the fuck squashed out of it. It can also cause distortion which also sounds shit, hurts peoples ears and damages your speakers.

So using a limiter to just get your decks at the same level isn’t a good idea, its not what the limiter is for. When used in a rig, it’s placed before the crossover to protect the speakers from excessively high signal levels (but in normal operation it shouldn’t be acting on the signal at all).

I guess all you can do is use your meters and ears to match the levels of your decks.

i kinda thought that may be the case on one hand ..on the other i didn’t know how much a limiter effected the quality of a signal tho .. didn’t realise it worked like a compresser … i thought it just limited the gain with out damagin the signal to that extent it does…

no other gadgets that would do what i want to do ?
March 12, 2009 at 9:37 am #1194858
process
Participant
DaftFader;312895 wrote:

i kinda thought that may be the case on one hand ..on the other i didn’t know how much a limiter effected the quality of a signal tho .. didn’t realise it worked like a compresser … i thought it just limited the gain with out damagin the signal to that extent it does…

no other gadgets that would do what i want to do ?

maybe buy a better mixer? which shows you the level each deck is coming in at meaning you can change the volume to match the other before you bring it in…
March 12, 2009 at 10:59 am #1194877
Clusterfrog
Participant
what you really want is a ‘volume maximiser’ type effect, which just turn the signal down a bit if it’s too loud. As far as I know these only exist as software though but worth looking around.

On the other hand all you should need to do is look at the master volume meter on your mixer and make sure it doesnt go in the red.
March 12, 2009 at 11:00 am #1194867
DaftFader
Participant
djprocess;312929 wrote:

maybe buy a better mixer? which shows you the level each deck is coming in at meaning you can change the volume to match the other before you bring it in…

mine does that .. but them things never work for me … it’s a problem i have allmost fixed in my mixing … but thought it would be nice to have a fail safe inplace
March 12, 2009 at 11:06 am #1194868
DaftFader
Participant
Iacchus;312944 wrote:

what you really want is a ‘volume maximiser’ type effect, which just turn the signal down a bit if it’s too loud. As far as I know these only exist as software though but worth looking around.

On the other hand all you should need to do is look at the master volume meter on your mixer and make sure it doesnt go in the red.

i never redline my stuff … just some tunes have diferant freq’s louder than others and even tho it looks like they are the same volume on the level’o’mitor (or what ever it’s called :laugh_at:) when it comes out the speakers one tune sounds alot louder than the other 😥
March 12, 2009 at 11:10 am #1194859
process
Participant
only way round it is to just bring it in slowly and alter the gains as the tune comes in i guess. either that or buy a new set of needles as this may be why one deck is quieter than the other…
March 12, 2009 at 11:17 am #1194869
DaftFader
Participant
djprocess;312948 wrote:

only way round it is to just bring it in slowly and alter the gains as the tune comes in i guess. either that or buy a new set of needles as this may be why one deck is quieter than the other…

yeah i think i need alot of new equipment .. and i do normaly bring things in slowly .. but for some mixes it requires me to cut right in to full volume blind .. and the levels need to match b4 cuting in for this to be sucsessfull .. and thats not allways the case even when it looks like they should be the same volume on my lvl indicators … :yakk:
March 12, 2009 at 11:27 am #1194860
process
Participant
DaftFader;312951 wrote:

yeah i think i need alot of new equipment .. and i do normaly bring things in slowly .. but for some mixes it requires me to cut right in to full volume blind .. and the levels need to match b4 cuting in for this to be sucsessfull .. and thats not allways the case even when it looks like they should be the same volume on my lvl indicators … :yakk:

true. knew set of needles should help a bit..
March 12, 2009 at 11:29 am #1194870
DaftFader
Participant
djprocess;312952 wrote:

true. knew set of needles should help a bit..

yeah i need new carts and all as one of mine is held on with cellotape lol
March 12, 2009 at 11:35 am #1194861
process
Participant
try giving your records a bit of a clean as well as that can effect the volume to.. (ill reply to your pm when im not at work mate 😉 )
March 12, 2009 at 11:52 am #1194878
Clusterfrog
Participant
DaftFader;312947 wrote:

i never redline my stuff … just some tunes have diferant freq’s louder than others and even tho it looks like they are the same volume on the level’o’mitor (or what ever it’s called :laugh_at:) when it comes out the speakers one tune sounds alot louder than the other 😥

I know what you mean.. that’s a sign of badly mastered track I suppose but there’s nothing you can do about that! Other than know your tracks well and make adjustments on the fly
March 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm #1194871
DaftFader
Participant
Iacchus;312962 wrote:

I know what you mean.. that’s a sign of badly mastered track I suppose but there’s nothing you can do about that! Other than know your tracks well and make adjustments on the fly

yeah that’s what causes it alot of the time … you get it alot with represses and all … i try my best to compensate .. but it catches me out some times:cry:
March 12, 2009 at 12:48 pm #1194872
DaftFader
Participant
djprocess;312958 wrote:

try giving your records a bit of a clean as well as that can effect the volume to.. (ill reply to your pm when im not at work mate 😉 )

most of my records are relatively clean .. alltho only from wiping them on the back of my t-shirt b4 they go on the deck to be played … it does the job:laugh_at:
March 16, 2009 at 6:28 pm #1194862
Raj
Participant
Think you need new needles and a mixer with either level needles or lights :p

I have a fully working and recently serviced djm500 for sale if you are interested 😉 it was retired to make way for a urei mixer :weee:
March 16, 2009 at 6:51 pm #1194873
DaftFader
Participant
Raj;313737 wrote:

Think you need new needles and a mixer with either level needles or lights :p

I have a fully working and recently serviced djm500 for sale if you are interested 😉 it was retired to make way for a urei mixer :weee:

i have lvl lights on both my mixers ..

my nedals on the other hand are mash up … ones held together with celotape .. also the tone arm on one of my decks is loose and wobbles about all the time .. so i am sure that doesn’t help 😥
March 16, 2009 at 7:02 pm #1194863
Raj
Participant
You are likely to be right about that – wobbly tonearms are not good.
March 23, 2009 at 8:04 am #1194856
noname
Participant
Aye – sort the decks before you do anything else to try and help the problem.

A limiter for that job is a really bad idea anyway – as has already been said, a limiter is just a compressor with infinite ratio. You don’t want it to be active as a general rule as it’s there mostly for protection, and it distorts the signal if pushed beyond it’s limiting threshold (btw – the volume maximiser that you get in software is just another compressor – usually with a sidebanded eq of some description, and one or two other features depending, like tube emulation etc. They do come in hardware too, or you can set one up using a compressor with an eq on the sideband…)

Better by far to get a mixer with good monitoring – a decent level meter on each channel would be fave, then do it by ear as you’re mixing… And sort the turntables out (get new carts and stylii, fix the loose tonearm, take any 5p’s bluetacked to headshell off and set the weight, height and anti skate properly – you’d be amazed how many of the problems can be down to a badly weighted/tracked tonearm…:wink:)
March 23, 2009 at 12:43 pm #1194874
DaftFader
Participant
noname;314894 wrote:

Aye – sort the decks before you do anything else to try and help the problem.

A limiter for that job is a really bad idea anyway – as has already been said, a limiter is just a compressor with infinite ratio. You don’t want it to be active as a general rule as it’s there mostly for protection, and it distorts the signal if pushed beyond it’s limiting threshold (btw – the volume maximiser that you get in software is just another compressor – usually with a sidebanded eq of some description, and one or two other features depending, like tube emulation etc. They do come in hardware too, or you can set one up using a compressor with an eq on the sideband…)

Better by far to get a mixer with good monitoring – a decent level meter on each channel would be fave, then do it by ear as you’re mixing… And sort the turntables out (get new carts and stylii, fix the loose tonearm, take any 5p’s bluetacked to headshell off and set the weight, height and anti skate properly – you’d be amazed how many of the problems can be down to a badly weighted/tracked tonearm…:wink:)

i used to set mine up properly .. but now the tone arm is wobbley it’s pointless cos the wieght undoes it’s self with the bass from my speakers:laugh_at:
March 23, 2009 at 1:24 pm #1194857
noname
Participant
DaftFader;314916 wrote:

i used to set mine up properly .. but now the tone arm is wobbley it’s pointless cos the wieght undoes it’s self with the bass from my speakers:laugh_at:

Then fix the tonearm? I have a full service manual for Technics if you need one (got it as a pdf somewhere…) Tonearm should be relatively easy to fix unless it’s totalled 😉
March 23, 2009 at 6:50 pm #1194875
DaftFader
Participant
noname;314924 wrote:

Then fix the tonearm? I have a full service manual for Technics if you need one (got it as a pdf somewhere…) Tonearm should be relatively easy to fix unless it’s totalled 😉

besides the decks not being technics:laugh_at: (alltho i apreciate the offer) i think there buggered m8 … tbh i would rather buy a new pair of decks than repair these ones .. as the’re crap and my mates anyway .. i am just borrowing them as he cant mix and i have no decks and can kinda mix on these things (more so than with no decks anyway:laugh_at:)

i just didn’t realise is was faulty hardware possably causing my problem … now i know what i have to do .. i will spend 5 years doing it till i have grown out of music and raving and give up on the idea of buying new decks :laugh_at: (that will never happen!:wink:)
March 23, 2009 at 6:53 pm #1194864
Raj
Participant
DaftFader;314966 wrote:

i will spend 5 years doing it till i have grown out of music and raving and give up on the idea of buying new decks :laugh_at: (that will never happen!:wink:)

pmsl good luck with that – I am still doing it 16 years on raaa
March 23, 2009 at 11:21 pm #1194855
globalloon
Participant
@Raj 314967 wrote:

pmsl good luck with that – I am still doing it 16 years on raaa

i’m still doing 16 years on too

with shit decks 😥

@Daft if the levels don’t help you, does you mixer allow you to listen to both tracks before you bring the cross fader over? you should be able to hear the levels through the phones
March 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm #1194876
DaftFader
Participant
globalloon;315023 wrote:

i’m still doing 16 years on too

with shit decks 😥

@Daft if the levels don’t help you, does you mixer allow you to listen to both tracks before you bring the cross fader over? you should be able to hear the levels through the phones

yeah my mixer does .. but it’s a dial fader … so it’s hard to tell when it’s reproducing the same levels that are coming out of the speakers … as i can adjust the head phone left and right channel seperatly … there is a button i can press to get it to change mode .. but that is broken ..and tbh i never use them things .. i am guessing that i need to just add some pre fading lvling to my repatoir of tricks 😉
Author

Posts