- This topic has 19 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated March 2, 2006 at 6:02 pm by Dan Ooops.
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January 19, 2006 at 9:02 pm #1037133
Our photo gallery is a public gallery. It can be viewed worldwide by all internet users. This includes officers of law enforcement agencies, and other anti-rave people who may pass info on to them! Do not upload any pictures which show you, your friends or any vehicles in an identifiable form at free parties (unlicensed rave events) or committing any illegal activity. People have been prosecuted in the UK and Europe because of photos uploaded to net galleries which show them next to rigs and rig vehicles. Don’t be paranoid of taking photos for your memories; but think before you upload. If a cop saw this photo, could it get someone in trouble? If so, then keep it for your private photo collection!
http://www.partyvibe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=30943
CD-Rs are a cheap way of backing up your cameras chips. and most photo shops will print from digital camera chips or other media storing computer files. Share your photos this way amongst your trusted friends – if anyone wants help ask on the main board and I am happy to assist with the techie matters.
If you want free parties to continue, don’t hand cops intelligence material on a plate!
January 20, 2006 at 12:32 pm #1068475Wise words GL.
I remember when I first started raving – back in 91, when I went to lots of spiral/bedlam etc parties. You never saw people taking photos, unless they were part of the rig, and even then rarely. Admittedly, there was not the availability of digital cameras that there are now, but the main reason people did not photograph every party they went to was a fairly real understanding that the majority of people were breaking the law – by putting on the party/bar/gyroscope!!
Also, if someone got a camera out, it was likely to be confiscated, or the person with the camera accused of being OB…
We at Ooops! were lucky, several of our crew worked in a photo processing place, so the photos never really went outside our circle
I personally wish that cameras had been more acceptable in the early days – my memory is wearing a bit thin.
Keep snapping – just watch where they go.
D
January 20, 2006 at 1:08 pm #1068467Anonymous
i have found that more and more random people have aggressively approached me while ive been filming and snapping at raves recently. i can see peoples worry, but i cant help but think a lot of the time what im encountering is bullshit ego posturing. people like to think they are important enough to be tracked, trailed and documented by the police, when in reality there are very few people likely to get done over a picture of they spazzed out on k.
The issues with vehicle and equipment security, however, are paramount, and the rigs should definitely be protected in light of recent developments.
January 21, 2006 at 11:40 am #1068469I have been uploading my party photo’s onto the Partyvibe gallery recently. :surprised I was under the impression that Partyvibe was safe and not under observation from law enforcements, due to the fact that there was a percific section created for uploading party photo’s. And also that there seemed to be alot of other user’s uploading their photo’s into this section. 😐
I feel a bit guilty for doing it now. I completely understand what the risk of uploading these kind of photo’s holds now. Is it an idea to remove my album’s already uploaded, or does it not matter now? I won’t be adding anymore album’s in the future anyway. :rant:
January 21, 2006 at 12:40 pm #1068461DJ Khemica wrote:I have been uploading my party photo’s onto the Partyvibe gallery recently. :surprised I was under the impression that Partyvibe was safe and not under observation from law enforcements, due to the fact that there was a percific section created for uploading party photo’s. And also that there seemed to be alot of other user’s uploading their photo’s into this section. 😐no public site which discusses activities outside the law is “safe” from being watched by cops – but its only recently they have been bothering with using photos to add to their evidence.
Bear in mind also a lot of the party photos on our gallery are from licensed events where there isn’t a problem (unless you snap someone blatantly dealing)
Quote:I feel a bit guilty for doing it now. I completely understand what the risk of uploading these kind of photo’s holds now. Is it an idea to remove my album’s already uploaded, or does it not matter now? I won’t be adding anymore album’s in the future anyway. :rant:please don’t feel too guilty – I am also a keen photographer, its only recently that this became a problem, and I too am gutted that we cannot use the gallery to share our memories.
The crew which was targeted by this had also over-used a certain area and attracted multiple complaints from locals prepared to make full statements to the cops as well as the photos that both the cops and ravers had taken adding to the evidence pile.
Best thing I can suggest is you look over your photos, and if they identify vehicles or key people to delete them. (make sure you have a backup copy on your personal storage media!).
As for future events, photos are still a good morale booster, a source of positive memories and can be useful for educating new crew people, so keep taking photos but copy them to CD-R or print them and share them with friends when you go to chill out at their houses.
January 21, 2006 at 1:17 pm #1068457I wouldn’t worry too much michaela, I’ve been keeping an eye on yours and everyone else’s uploads and they’ve been fine. Like the document says though it’s best to avoid crew shots and that…
January 23, 2006 at 1:22 pm #1068468yea, its not that you cant upload any party photos, in fact 99% of party photos are completely fine, legal and just interesting.
i would have thought that it was obvious that putting the lisence plates of organisers of potentially criminal events, and pictures of the crew responsible setting up their rig, was asking for trouble.
no illegal parties are advertised here. does that not tell people all they need to know? i think GL’s example of dont write anything here that you wouldnt care being overheard in the pub is a good rule of thumb.
maybe we need more strenuous warnings about use of the site in general. but i think it would be a real shame if the pigs pressured us into not sharing our pictures of these amasing events. as i said, 99% are harmless.
January 24, 2006 at 10:40 am #1068462I have posted quite a few warnings in the past about use of the forum and security – people seem to heed them as there is far less detailed discussion about free parties than before.
Our culture of not permitting acrimonious conflict in discussions has also helped a lot – it is usually when people are whinging and complaining about some aspect of a free party that lots of “chatter” leaks out on who is involved with these events.
I think its a shame we can’t talk as freely as before and share memories – OTOH I think people mistake a lack of enforcement for societys acceptance of raves and grossly underestimate the level of backlash there is against rave culture (including licensed events)
We see it as harmless fun but many others see it as 15 years of law-breaking which has lead a proportion its followers into serious criminality and drug addiction.
That said, there is level of “tinfoil helmet” paranoia on the rave scene about photographers, and out of date information.
the CID have tried “deep cover” tactics against licensed and free parties in the past – but appear to have given up as it only resulted in promising young cops being sucked into the partying/drugs culture (including fairly serious levels of corruption such as running dealing rackets!) and having to leave the force under a cloud!
there were loads of reports like this in the 90s…. each young cop lost this way represents a cost to the public purse of £70,000+ (cost of training, first few years salary etc) – when you consider that these operations would merely have shown that “there are drugs sold and taken at urban music events” and resulted in very few arrests (apart from arrests of the cops who went bad) this is not a cost-effective thing to keep doing!
Traffic cops in plain clothes (“black rats”) and rookie detectives closely chaperoned by older supervisors (to stop them actually being tempted into taking drugs) still appear at raves, but they usually just observe how many people are there, to see how much damage has been caused or if locals are being blocked from access, or to make laughable attempts to purchase drugs.
Those cops who take photos at raves are in full uniform – only certain trained officers or civillian staff can do this as they have to ensure time/date/place is correctly logged so their evidence can be admissible in Court.
They are called an “Evidence gathering team” (EGT) and often have high-vis markings on their uniform confirming this.
They carry out their work in full view to make it clear to ravers “you are being watched”.
They usually appear around the same time as the force aircraft, or stand near traffic patrol cars with cameras.
This is done because the aircraft and traffic cars have GPS/timecode equipment and the video footage, position info and timecode confirms in Court that both the EGT (identifiable by their uniform markings) and the ravers were all in the same place at the same time.
A detective could not do this as obviously he/she would be trying not to stand out from the crowd!
Therefore, anyone else taking photos at raves is more than likely just another raver or a crew person photographing the scene and the rig for their own use (such as training new crew members) or to share the photos with their friends.
There is a very small chance a random taking photos could be a detective or an angry local/building owner – but TBH there’s nothing anyone could do to stop them.
At an unlicensed rave no one has the moral high ground – the crews have taken over someone elses territory by a covert operation so they can’t really complain if others try covert operations of their own.
If wannabe vigilantés at rave start harrasing people or trying to nick their camera kit, and they are cops/locals, they will simply press their emergency radio button or call 999, and call backup or give full details of the cops as to where the rave is and it will get busted big time anyway.
Harrasment and robbery are far greater crimes than unlicensed raves!
February 3, 2006 at 6:14 pm #1068470Site wrote:I wouldn’t worry too much michaela, I’ve been keeping an eye on yours and everyone else’s uploads and they’ve been fine. Like the document says though it’s best to avoid crew shots and that…Hi H (if that’s you). I’m just guessing. lol
I hope my latest pics I’ve uploaded in the gallery are ok. They are just Moshing and stack shots really, I’ve been trying to keep faces, reg plates, things like that out of it as advised.
I know you’ll let me know if there was a problem anyway. :bigsmile:
Lady Michaela
February 14, 2006 at 3:31 pm #1068458DJ Khemica wrote:Hi H (if that’s you). I’m just guessing. lolI hope my latest pics I’ve uploaded in the gallery are ok. They are just Moshing and stack shots really, I’ve been trying to keep faces, reg plates, things like that out of it as advised.
I know you’ll let me know if there was a problem anyway. :bigsmile:
Lady Michaela
Again, you’re pictures are great so don’t worry about it, in fact we want MORE… 🙂
h
February 28, 2006 at 9:40 pm #1068471I’m removing my pictures from the gallery because of the risk of, well, obvious reasons really, concerning the old bill.
Although I’ve tried to keep the pictures I upload safe, making sure there is nothing in them that can be used as evidence against crews, I can’t be arsed with the hassle that I’m getting off of people, telling me that I’ve been doing wrong. :surprised
Glad you enjoyed viewing my photo’s for that short time. 😐
February 28, 2006 at 11:04 pm #1068464Hey Khemica. It’s a shame you are getting hassle from uninformed people.
Yes pictures can be incriminating.
Yes they have been used as evidence.
Yes some sites were wise to remove their very busy gallerys because of this.Unfortunately some people have picked this up and gone completely over the top with it.
No close ups, no comments with names etc, no pictures of dj’s, no plates, no dates and names of parties on the title of galleries are fine IMO. As long as you are careful with what you do then pics are fine. The problem was when close up shots were being uploaded and photos were chatted about in comments or on boards linking names and dates etc.
Although maybe it’s best for people to be over the top about it. At least they have woken up and taken note that police do observe and gather evidence.
March 1, 2006 at 1:19 am #1068472Hey Biotech. 🙂 Ah, don’t matter. I guess not uploading any sort of illegal party pics is for the best after all, although I truly think I have been most careful lately about the kind of photo’s I upload, making sure there’s nothing in them that can be used by the O.B.
Still, some ppl aren’t happy about even them sort of party pics being put up on the net. :rolleyes:But, hey-ho, nevermind. Using the gallery was wicked while it lasted as it gave me somewhere to store my pics, aswell as to be able to share them.
Admin: I need some help. Can someone please delete the album’s I cannot delete myself?. I think it’s only you, the administration team, who can do it. Thanks…
(Oh, except for the 2 new one’s in my album. I haven’t finished with them yet. The album is in ‘Members pictures’ and called ‘Princess Mickie’s Party Pics’. Cheers…)
March 1, 2006 at 6:30 am #1068459DJ Khemica wrote:Hey Biotech. 🙂 Ah, don’t matter. I guess not uploading any sort of illegal party pics is for the best after all, although I truly think I have been most careful lately about the kind of photo’s I upload, making sure there’s nothing in them that can be used by the O.B.
Still, some ppl aren’t happy about even them sort of party pics being put up on the net. :rolleyes:But, hey-ho, nevermind. Using the gallery was wicked while it lasted as it gave me somewhere to store my pics, aswell as to be able to share them.
Admin: I need some help. Can someone please delete the album’s I cannot delete myself?. I think it’s only you, the administration team, who can do it. Thanks…
(Oh, except for the 2 new one’s in my album. I haven’t finished with them yet. The album is in ‘Members pictures’ and called ‘Princess Mickie’s Party Pics’. Cheers…)
I really don’t understand why you’ve changed your mind suddenly because I agree with Biotech in that there’s absoultely nothing wrong with the party pictures. It takes discussing them in public and a lot more to give the authorities enough to use them as evidence. Anyway let me know…
March 1, 2006 at 9:53 am #1068473Hello H.
I just can’t be arsed with the shit I’m getting from people who think that me uploading my pictures is wrong.
Your right, people are a bit ‘OTT’ about it all, they are that extra bit paranoid that pictures from the net, even just rig pictures, are being used as evidence by old bill.I’ve tried my best to keep them safe but it doesn’t seem to be safe enough in some people’s eyes. I just think it’s best for me to remove my album’s. Better to be safe than sorry.
If you could help me with that, that’ll be wicked. Cheers….
March 1, 2006 at 10:17 am #1068460DJ Khemica wrote:Hello HI just can’t be arsed with the shit I’m getting from people who think that me uploading my pictures is wrong.
Your right, people are a bit ‘OTT’ about it all, they are that extra bit paranoid that pictures from the net, even just rig pictures, are being used as evidence by old bill.I’ve tried my best to keep them safe but it doesn’t seem to be safe enough in some people’s eyes. I just think it’s best for me to remove my album’s. Better to be safe than sorry.
If you could help me with that, that’ll be wicked. Cheers….
Who’s giving you shit, where? We’ve always made a point of keeping things quiet rather than openly discussing private matters, if anything’s getting people in trouble it’s the opposite being allowed to happen you know where. I really fail to see how any of your pictures could be used as evidence of anything. Anyway, I’ll make your pictures visible by you alone to allow you to keep them for yourself…
March 1, 2006 at 4:18 pm #1068463Grr…
since Chinese take-away places are starting to use eco-friendly re-usable containers, I should perhaps start collecting their remaining stocks of foil dishes and recycle them into tinfoil helmets to sell at raves.
If people are this fucking paranoid they are probably also worried about aliens and the security services scanning their brains via bugs in their mobile phones (not that they would find a lot of info to download)
I know what Michaela has gone through as I have lost count of the amount of times I have been accused of being a cop or even working for MI5 whilst taking photos – USE gets similar hassle as well, as do friends of mine who actualy own rigs!
I’ve seen posts on boards about self-appointed vigilantés suggesting removing cameras from people; which seems like people trying to legitimise mugging, presumably to fund the drug habits and feed their paranoia
if antis – be they cops or locals – really wanted to stich us up by infiltrating raves and taking photos they would have done so by now. Raves arent that fucking secret when you live within a few miles of one; and even older people could blend into a rave crowd these days as the age range is very wide….
TBH its really only because crews and ravers themselves have been so fucking stubborn and agresssive (and a couple of photographers weren’t careful) this situation has arisen – people doing the same place over and over again despite locals’ complaints, people trashing buildings or intimidating locals, and so-called ravers who are para about being photographed as they can’t be fucked to get a job and live through thieving, robbing and twoccing so of course the cops are after them!
I was initially worried about my former employers seeing pics of me on one particular site; but it turned out they blocked the whole site anyway so there isn’t that much of a risk, and had I ever been challeneged all I would have said was I encountered a “large disco” whilst cycling on the Ridgeway and decided to join in for a bit – as any young lad would do on finding a party in full swing!
Lets face it, we are committing a legally questionable activity on someone elses resources at an unlicensed event. There are risks in doing so and no one is above the law; if you are not prepared to accept these risks then do not attend these events or take part in organising them.
one thing which does make me angry is that because people can’t stand up to the cops who take photos any more as they don’t have a moral right to do so (they are invading somone elses property and often causing damage/contamination) they seem happy to try and intimidate idealistic photographers who (perhaps after being given a little advice) are doing more good than harm. Many are taking photos for private collections or restricted distribution (amongst trusted friends).
There are not as many underground ravers as you may think in the UK and the numbers are dropping due to increasing pressure. The history of this scene needs to be documented and pictured in a positive way ; otherwise our only legacy will be the crime reports and the anti-rave articles in the newspapers.
March 1, 2006 at 4:30 pm #1068465General Lighting wrote:The history of this scene needs to be documented and pictured in a positive way ; otherwise our only legacy will be the crime reports and the anti-rave articles in the newspapers.That’s true enough!
March 1, 2006 at 4:50 pm #1068466General Lighting wrote:Grr…since Chinese take-away places are starting to use eco-friendly re-usable containers, I should perhaps start collecting their remaining stocks of foil dishes and recycle them into tinfoil helmets to sell at raves.
If people are this fucking paranoid they are probably also worried about aliens and the security services scanning their brains via bugs in their mobile phones (not that they would find a lot of info to download)
That’s not a bad idea GL i’ve been looking for a wee money spinner, mite try that this season….:bigsmile:March 2, 2006 at 6:02 pm #1068474Oh, I’m just getting shit off of people from another free party forum I post on. They took their gallery away because they said that old bill were taking pictures from it and using them pictures in court to prosecute party organisers… It’s a possibility that this IS happening, but I know that I’ve been careful with uploading the sort of shots that surely cannot be considered as ‘evidence for old bill’. Just some people are sooo paranoid!.
Anyways, thank you, H. 😉 Thanks for your help….
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