- This topic has 28 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated April 10, 2006 at 10:35 pm by Raj.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 5, 2006 at 4:39 pm #1037426
Anonymous
reet. im trying to get funding for my vj setup ( im having to borrow pratically everything and its getting right on my tits) i was wondering if any ofyou had any experience in this feild.
my links so far are:
http://www.nesta.org bit out of my league, but you can allegedly get 30k out of them with the right project
http://www.princestrust.org.uk looks like you can only get a loan of them, which seesm a bit tight considering its the royal family, they are basically exploiting people who cant get bank loans.
http://www.awardsforall.org.uk is great, so long as you are involving the community, especially deprived people. so i could set up a workshop in vjing, but id have to get more skills and people on board, im working on that at the moment
http://www.artscouncil.org.uk which seem like the most likely, as they are more interested in the art for its own sake, rather than how it will get other people involved
http://www.prsfoundation.co.uk which is more geared toward music, but if i do an audiovisual project with a freind, i’ll be eligable.basically ive been toying with the apps for years, but am scared of going it alone, and at the same time people are interested, but show not much commitment, which is essential. you cant just take the money and run (and i dont want to anyway).
ive seen people who have go money for specific events, and travel costs for groups to events, and workshops, but i just want the cash to start up my vjing properly. my position is that i have a lot to offer the british creative scene, and if i have the kit then i can facilitate that. at the moment, the main thing holding me back is my ancient pc which takes 24 hours to render a single frame. frustrating isnt the word.
any suggestions would be great, and if any one wants to ask me stuff, i will help as much as i can, but as you can prolly tell, im a bit bemused by the whole thing.
April 5, 2006 at 5:19 pm #1069487i have some experience of small grant applications… but not much
art council money distrbution really depends on which panel reviews your application… at work i put in for a photography project that was rejected.. we got the money elsewhere anyway and when the exhibition was up in the local art centre, the chair of the arts council said that if was doing anything similar in future, i should apply to them. i told him we had, but had ben rejected and he was furious with the panel that had reviewed the application
so a bit of priming can help oil the wheels
awards for all could work, after all you’re young (under 25?) and unemployed
are you still in france? if you’re back in UK you could try your local council for voluntary service… they vary from place to place, but they do have a role to provide funding advice and supporting applications… some are quite forward-thinking and developed, while others are old ladies in tweed and flat shoes… postcode lottery there
IM me with a bit more about what you need, exactly and I can use something at work called Grantfinder, which might open some other avenues for you
April 5, 2006 at 6:03 pm #1069507*assuming you are interested in being self employed*
Have you tried asking your jobcentre with help becoming self employed? they will then teach you all sorts of useful skills and help you with setting it up; also they will financially support you through first 6 months:horay::horay:
also local enterprise companies in your area might be good for grants if you were setting up a business
April 5, 2006 at 10:04 pm #1069492basically im applying for an arts grant for myself. the kit will be used by to ten to fifty others in performance in the first year, in production it will be more like 5 people. im in brighton, which means i have stiff competition and its hardly a deprived area. i nedd from 5 to 25 grand for kit basically, and that will be used for innovative performance video art and audio visual performances at at least 70 shows in a year. i think the application will be for 5 grand cos thats easier to get. i have been preforming as a vj for 5 years on borrowed kit, but have all my own clips and am a skilled animator (cough). the only kit i can call my own is an ancient pc which doesnt run vj apps properly, but ill do basic video editing and make animations, if i leave it for 24 hours at a time to think about it. the main jist behind my app is that i can bring a lot of existig skill together with my links and that will enrich the brighton art scene. also i will be working for expenses for a lot of up and coming audio acts so they benefit also.
i am up for doing workshops, but that would cost a lot more because i would have to get quite a few laptops, which means its about 15 grand dearer at least
jsa are being wankers, im sure theres a magic word to get them to give me more training, but at the moment theyve just offered me basic IT, which i completed. it a bit of an arse cos i dont want to talk to them too much about vjing cos i dont want them making me fill in tax forms or owt (altho i earn absolutely mowt at the mo, its all expenses)
April 5, 2006 at 10:24 pm #1069488you could push jsa for paying for a ‘training the trainer’ course, which would effectively make you qualified to deliver certain accredited adult training (usuallyvocational or unaccredited short courses)…
you could then apply for funding for vjing equipment on the basis that you would use it to provide something like (off the top of my head) a city & guilds qualification to a group of 10 unemployed, vulnerabley housed, young people (sound familiar yet?) in multi-media and IT, with a final outcome of an exhibition of their work… or something similar
having that type of ‘setting’ makes sources of arts funding more accessible… basically, when you’re looking for funding, you will know what you want to achieve, which is X, various funders will have what they want their money to achieve, whcih is Y
the challenge for you is how do you sell X and make it sound like Y?
be creative and think laterally
April 5, 2006 at 11:13 pm #1069493yerp, the training to be able to train others would be nice. but havign to train for one thing in order to train other peole so i can get funding, in what is essentailly a sidetrack, when there are clear benefits to the wider community for the kind of work i do, seems a little rubbish. but then i do want the moon on a stick, and i always have, im just that sort of person.
but there must be a middle way. as you said its all about creative lateral thinking and there must be someting i could teach that i actually would be any good at and enjoy. any arts based course, in fact vjing itself has a lot of transferrable skills, in building non linear narative, presentation of the individual creatively, process based art creation, IT, video editing etc etc.
im sure that someone out there is up for sorting me out a few grand, but its so hard articulting exactly what im about, as i take so much of it for granted. just the concept of vjing itself, while its been around for ages, many people have to have it explained to them at length before they understand past “some video on a screen”.
you said there was a database of funders you could check for me? that would be fantastic, cos the way i see it, you throw enough shit at a wall, some of its gotta stick.:crazy_fre
April 5, 2006 at 11:32 pm #1069489USE wrote:yerp, the training to be able to train others would be nice. but havign to train for one thing in order to train other peole so i can get funding, in what is essentailly a sidetrack, when there are clear benefits to the wider community for the kind of work i do, seems a little rubbish. but then i do want the moon on a stick, and i always have, im just that sort of person.it might seem a bit sideways, but i take a long view
Quote:but there must be a middle way.there will be funds out there, if you can show what you know in a way that is ‘the right way’ to a purse-string holder somewhere.. it’s a bit of a game :coin:
i’m probably a bit blinkered in that i’m coming at it from a not-for-profit sector perspective
other people would look at it as a business opportunity
and other people still would have a gadzillion other perspectives
:surprised
but the rough example i mentioned before has happened near me… film editing suite and music production suite paid for out of trust funds for open studio access to unemplyed under 25s, as long as while they use the equipment they work towards a C&G qualification and an exhibition… usually over 10 weeks, after which time the same people can return to offer support the the next group
:weee: :omg: :bounce: :ar15: :group_hug :lol_teeth :crazy: :bounce_ci raaa :biggreen: :flowers:
Quote:as you said its all about creative lateral thinking and there must be someting i could teach that i actually would be any good at and enjoy. any arts based course, in fact vjing itself has a lot of transferrable skills, in building non linear narative, presentation of the individual creatively, process based art creation, IT, video editing etc etc.im sure that someone out there is up for sorting me out a few grand, but its so hard articulting exactly what im about, as i take so much of it for granted. just the concept of vjing itself, while its been around for ages, many people have to have it explained to them at length before they understand past “some video on a screen”.
no doubt. art can be hard to describe. you do know what you’re talking about though :bulb:
Quote:you said there was a database of funders you could check for me? that would be fantastic, cos the way i see it, you throw enough shit at a wall, some of its gotta stick.:crazy_frepm me your email / skype / msn thingy…
:devil_wag
April 6, 2006 at 2:19 pm #1069502Sorry i couldn’t be bothered to read all the replys in details…
But i wonder if any one has mentioned the funding reference/ grants books that can be found down at the local libary…
The books hold vast information on agencies and and places that you can apply to for funding as long as you met the critiria…
Oh… and it’s always worth giving your local C.A.B a call, i know they hold funding and grant books and that type of information…
i know… someone might come back and say they had a bad experience with one of the bureaus…
But you know what, unless people really want help… there’s no helping them… and others, they just don’t want to accept the truth or they want to be told what to do… they choice is always left to the client to decide as it’s their life.. It’s an information and Advise/ Options service.And being totally honest if anyone decided to put the place down… just rememebr it a none government funded, confidentual, independant service for the people… run by volunteers that give there time up for nothing, each adviser is trained to a high degree above normal standards… they try to making sure that each client has the information to stays within the civil and criminal law and most advisers to their best for the clients, giving as many option as possible and information….
oh and yeah, i admit.. mistakes could be made like in evey other place but on a whole… if people don’t following information correctly and deciding to blame someone else for their mistake or lack of actions… there are not taking responsibility for their lifes and C.A.B advisers only give information and options, it’s down to the client to that the actions.I’ve heard loads of people put the place down but really it is a great service, honestly and truly… go on, believe me…
Suppose sometimes i just find that some people are just to quick to be negative…Go on… surpise me!
April 6, 2006 at 2:29 pm #1069494no, sound info, ‘preciate it. when i get back to england i’ll be doing just that.
cant metion CAB without it getting a bit slated, tho, ive tried to get info from them a bunch of times and they just piss me about, giving me dates and times to come in and then saying they cant deal with me today, which is gay if you’ve taken the mornig off wok. i do appreciate theyre trying to do a lot with fuck all, and hats off to the volunteers (at least all the ones who’ve never worked in the worthing one, theyre wankers) they look like theyre the ones who could do with some funding!
doesnt mean im not gonna give the brighton branch a try tho.
sorry to not suprise you, but thats my experience.
April 6, 2006 at 2:35 pm #1069503No way… thats just bad…
When did you last use them?
The place gets so busy there… and sometimes when there’s only 2 advisers and 20 odd clients… you know, it just doesn’t add up… plus to deal with each client takes at least 1 hour…No way… See i like the worthing one.
April 6, 2006 at 2:36 pm #1069504Oh… they do have an appointment system as well as the drop in!
April 6, 2006 at 3:04 pm #1069483from a different perspective I would suggest TBH working out the “numbers game” as the first part of it – and although this sounds square try to make your venture as sustainable within the free market as possible; and to see handouts from strangers as a very last resort. (this does not mean you should not approach people close to you for money, but you need the full business plan and proposals with robust and accurate figures)
You will also have to accept that if you really want people to hand out public money to you that you may have to be side-tracked from your initial plans to get or keep this money. Nothing is given away without strings attached.
Look at it this way; why would (or should) tax-payers (or anyone else) have to hand you money for your pet project; unless they can see a return on their investment?
There is a very limited market for VJs outside clubs , raves and avant-garde art galleries which TBH usually have their own inner clique of artists (as you no doubt know)
However as globalloon mentioned they have projects for teaching media skills for young people –
I would also add that a lot of these grants are “match funding” where you have to provide an equivalent amount of money yourself or from private sector investors.
The application process is long, daunting and stressful and will sap your creative energy without even the guarantee of a penny/euro cent, and you have already said yourself you are just coming through a stressful time in your life to which you will be adding the added strain of running a business?
there is also no guarantee whatsoever any of these funding organisations will exist in 5 years time or even a years time. there is a war on at home and abroad, sapping our exchequer to deal with its fallout and the “luxuries” such as arts funding are always under threat.
Also the chance of a change of government to one even more determined to impose free market ideologies.
TBH it may be worth getting a normal job doing something you enjoy first, and saving cash to buy new kit.
It may delay you by months or years but grant applications take time as well; and if you have a proven track record in conventional work organisations are more likely to treat a funding application seriously…
then again it could assist things. Lots of people want to use video to advertise their services..
Lets say you got a job in a bike shop, and someone said “we are having an MTB even this weekend and we need someone to video it – can you get a crew together, we will pay for this…”
April 6, 2006 at 3:44 pm #1069490Stealth B52 wrote:But i wonder if any one has mentioned the funding reference/ grants books that can be found down at the local libary…The books hold vast information on agencies and and places that you can apply to for funding as long as you met the critiria…
Oh… and it’s always worth giving your local C.A.B a call, i know they hold funding and grant books and that type of information…
USE,
the grant finder service i told you about saves you trawling through all of this… it searches for you
April 6, 2006 at 4:03 pm #1069495General Lighting wrote:Look at it this way; why would (or should) tax-payers (or anyone else) have to hand you money for your pet project; unless they can see a return on their investment?the grants are set up to support artists and to encourage artistic growth, i will be providing employment for around ten people over 12 months, and supporting many artists, producers and musicians. from what ive read, that is sufficient return.
Quote:There is a very limited market for VJs outside clubs , raves and avant-garde art galleriessorry mate, that is bullshit. they are used in awide variety of fashion, drama, arts, music, corporate, educational and presentation events. thsi potential is slowly being realised. i mean for batman begins, and about five other hollywood films this year, vjs have been commissioned to make a/v trailers for them. they have not been released thus far, but they have been commissioned and people got payed a fuck load for doing them. i think you underestimate vjing a lot.
Quote:However as globalloon mentioned they have projects for teaching media skills for young people –im well up for that, but media equipment doesnt come cheap, and whle i have enough contacts to provide very rounded vj seminars (as in we stand at the front and make presentation/lectures) actual teaching involved workshops cost tens of thousands to set up.
Quote:I would also add that a lot of these grants are “match funding” where you have to provide an equivalent amount of money yourself or from private sector investors.for most of them you only have to provide 10% which for a 5k grant is 500. i can do that.
Quote:The application process is long, daunting and stressful and will sap your creative energy without even the guarantee of a penny/euro cent, and you have already said yourself you are just coming through a stressful time in your life to which you will be adding the added strain of running a business?i’ve thought about that, and its nothing compared to the stress of working in the dead end jobs i get offered. i would seriously rather go and either starve or commit armed robbery than do these jobs. im sure that sounds stupid, and maybe i am, but there you go.
Quote:TBH it may be worth getting a normal job doing something you enjoy first, and saving cash to buy new kit.i’ve been trying for a year. and i will continue trying, this is just one avenue.
Quote:It may delay you by months or years but grant applications take time as well; and if you have a proven track record in conventional work organisations are more likely to treat a funding application seriously…i have a proven track record of success in galleries and other exhibition spaces. i have worked voluntarily for non-profit galeries and community and voluntary sector organisations preparing and running events (B.A.S.S.23).
Quote:then again it could assist things. Lots of people want to use video to advertise their services..Lets say you got a job in a bike shop, and someone said “we are having an MTB even this weekend and we need someone to video it – can you get a crew together, we will pay for this…”
well up for this, but my skill lies more in editing that shooting. my little bro is a cinematogapher, up in hull, and i know many others in brighton who are etter at filming than me. one thing i always stick tois that if someone can do something better than me, i let them, its all about collaboration, not competition, which is what gives my proposal strength.
globalloon wrote:USE,the grant finder service i told you about saves you trawling through all of this… it searches for you
safe! im on msn if u wanna chat.
Oh… they do have an appointment system as well as the drop in!Today 02:35 PM
they were appointments. but they over booked. and a scruffy looking hippy doesnt get preferential treatment. which is why ive cut my hair off.
April 6, 2006 at 4:20 pm #1069484USE wrote:sorry mate, that is bullshit. they are used in awide variety of fashion, drama, arts, music, corporate, educational and presentation events. thsi potential is slowly being realised. i mean for batman begins, and about five other hollywood films this year, vjs have been commissioned to make a/v trailers for them. they have not been released thus far, but they have been commissioned and people got payed a fuck load for doing them. i think you underestimate vjing a lot.TBH I would not have called this sort of production a “VJ” production, just a multimedia presentation or a corporate video…
I had always thought of a “VJ” as someone mixing footage to a live music event TBH with more emphasis on the live stuff than pre-recorded content; and linked with discos/raves rather than anything more “normal”
It May be worth however clarifiying this though to people who may not be so au fait with “trendy” terms – as an example I work as a finance manager in a healthcare facility who uses training videos. Had I been asked to commision or edit one and seen someone advertising themselves as a “VJ” I’d probably be very sceptical and look instead for a “video editor” or “producer”…
April 6, 2006 at 4:25 pm #1069486USE wrote:and a scruffy looking hippy doesnt get preferential treatment. which is why ive cut my hair off.I wish you well use
it can be a mission trying to do what you want in life and the path is never easyoff point slightly, but:
sadly, we live in a superficial world that more often than not judges on appearance. I look pretty normal and think it can be hard for people to judge what I’m into or make any rash judgements about me (I like that – it makes me feel more powerful than wearing my heart on my sleeve)OTOH, my partner couldn’t get a job for nearly two years after we left uni and i think it was the dreadlocks – we argued about it for ages (I had my own reasons for wanting to get rid of them – they stank and stuck in my face at night!) – but when he finally did cut them off (the saddo still keeps them in a ziplocked bag for posterity!), lo and behold, he got the job he wanted within a week. he’s a graphic/ footwear designer and always argued that “alternative” appearances didnt matter in the design world. apparently they do……
April 6, 2006 at 4:30 pm #1069485vicky wrote:lo and behold, he got the job he wanted within a week. he’s a graphic/ footwear designer and always argued that “alternative” appearances didnt matter in the design world. apparently they do……it was a bit more liberal in the 90s but the days of cool britannia and the dotcom boom are dead, and they are never coming back.
Wearing a suit or tie or changing your appearance to fit in with a dress code when you don’t want to also shows you are not overly stubborn and will accept others guidelines or opinions over your individual desires which is why it is forced upon people in business. In my last job I always wore a shirt and tie and tried to look “normal”
Despite not having an official dress code I was treated with more respect than those who dressed in normal street wear – I always thought it was daft and irrational but thats how society works.
April 6, 2006 at 5:29 pm #1069496General Lighting wrote:TBH I would not have called this sort of production a “VJ” production, just a multimedia presentation or a corporate video…I had always thought of a “VJ” as someone mixing footage to a live music event TBH with more emphasis on the live stuff than pre-recorded content; and linked with discos/raves rather than anything more “normal”
It May be worth however clarifiying this though to people who may not be so au fait with “trendy” terms – as an example I work as a finance manager in a healthcare facility who uses training videos. Had I been asked to commision or edit one and seen someone advertising themselves as a “VJ” I’d probably be very sceptical and look instead for a “video editor” or “producer”…
im not talking about fixed videos im talkiing about live events. wether they be plays, fashion shows, corporate presentation events. the hollywood remixes, are debatable. i dont think they are vjing either, but teh consensus says otherwise.
mixing live has many more applications than music performance, and in the fashion, drama and corporate events, having to trigger sequences when people walk into a room, or when unpredicatable events occur is something which you can only do effectively with vj software. you can try and time things to te visuals, but you have more flexability in your show if the visuals are timed to the events.
if we are gonna get into the debate of what a vj actually is, then we will be here all day, i might start another thread, but if you are interested in the definition, check here. sorry to have been so blunt.
On appearance and jobs:
i have to say it was very galling going into the exact same agencies and talkign to the exact same people, and being treated totally differently. i was boiling with rage and wanted to scream in their faces “im the same fucking person you superficial, shallow, square cunts!” but luckily i held back, or there would have been little point in changing in the first place.
my problem is that as an artist, a lot of my self worth is tied in with my artistic integrity, and that extends to my appearance. being stiubborn is part of being an artist. without it you are a designer, which i dont mind from time to time, but that isnt really me. in a way my appearance is an art project in itself, and having to compromise my visual integrity made me worried i was going down the slippery slope to confornity. i still think that to a certain extent, but sometimes you have to pick your battles. im sure that sounds very pretentious, and maybe i am.
April 6, 2006 at 6:14 pm #1069508yes its superficial but did you know that on of those studies done in the last decade came to the conclusion that most people will decide whether they like you or not within 30 seconds of meeting you; often before you have said anything besides hallo.:annoyed:
This means that you need to present what makes people comfortable {does not challenge their assumptions about life} or generates empathy from them to get them to listen to you in order to get them beyond the first 30 seconds.:devil_wagFor a manual of how to get people to give you what you want or be receptive to your ideas you could do worse than starting with that cheesy little treasure:
how to make friends and influence people – by Dale Carnegie:devil_wag
[ this may sound crazy but it will at least make you aware of things that dont work]You may think that this is morally wrong and people should take you on your merits and i would agree you are right. :rant:
It is merely that if you want to get jobs/grants/sales you need to present something that the person with the purse strings is comfortable with to maximise your chances of getting it; after you have it you can go back to being you.:devil_wag[edited for bad grammar; sorry folks]
April 6, 2006 at 8:03 pm #1069497this is making me seriously depressed. im off the net for the evening now…fucking crap world full of fucking deranged strait cunts trying to judge you on fuck all, ggrrrr, makes me wish i had an AK47.
then we’d see who judges who.:toxic: :ar15: :devil_wag :ar15::toxic:
yea i know, that kind of attitude wont get me anywhere, im my own mosrt enemy rahdedahdebollocks
April 6, 2006 at 8:11 pm #1069491mate
june, who set up the programme i mentioned is a proper old head who does not give a fuck about …
it’s about how you see yourself… can you visualise yourself in a reality where you are doing what you want and it’s not only accepted but you’re being valued?
try and see yourself like that and gradually it becomes a reality… visualiing something helps you make your dreams fit with reality
April 6, 2006 at 8:15 pm #1069498globalloon wrote:it’s about how you see yourself… can you visualise yourself in a reality where you are doing what you want and it’s not only accepted but you’re being valued?try and see yourself like that and gradually it becomes a reality… visualiing something helps you make your dreams fit with reality
yea, i see myself there, and sometimes i am. im all over the creative visualisation tip, im just pissed and easily wound up. but sound advice, none the less. nice to be reasssured. also nice to lose your rag from time to time. :surprised
April 6, 2006 at 11:01 pm #1069509USE wrote:this is making me seriously depressed. im off the net for the evening now…fucking crap world full of fucking deranged strait cunts trying to judge you on fuck all, ggrrrr, makes me wish i had an AK47.then we’d see who judges who.:toxic: :ar15: :devil_wag :ar15::toxic:
yea i know, that kind of attitude wont get me anywhere, im my own mosrt enemy rahdedahdebollocks
:hiding:sorry mate; wasnt intended to bring you down;:hiding:
i will get back into my hole; apologies
but if you get two toys let me know and i’ll help you with that great idea…
April 6, 2006 at 11:05 pm #1069499rajsuspect wrote::hiding:sorry mate; wasnt intended to bring you down;:hiding:i will get back into my hole; apologies
but if you get two toys let me know and i’ll help you with that great idea…
no appolgies neccessary, i just like spitting my dummy from time to time, keeps me going in a weird way. thsi toy could use all the help he can get. and hopefully this thread maybe of some use others who need a hand up.
April 7, 2006 at 10:46 am #1069505I know nothing about nothing and even less about Vjing…
But after reading a bit more i so think a charity visual arts and music youth /community center could work especially in the Brighton area due to their chilled council…
As someones already menioned, Of course it would take a bit of hard work as no one will give you anything for nothing… and to try to pull the community together, stop them picking on the youth and to try to get everyone apart of something positive could be a good thing…
If you could get support from the council… they could donate premisses? would be a bonus, they have empty stock for businesses/ charities, so if you have support from the youth agencies and other youth projects, that might help swing it with them…
Support from Sound Systems, Dj, Club owners, ravers, anyone who could donate their time, Name, ideas, knowlege or other things that could help the bigger picture.. local promoters etc..
And i’ve been told in the right situation to set up Nvq cert for the kids is to hard.
If that was a root your’d be up for taking then i would donate you a free website for the center, and probaly have some spare equiptment (music and pc), and software… that i could let go off and everyone always as favours to call in!I don’t know but with a lot of dreaming, hard work, planning and motivation..
(i would like to point out that i do live in my own little dream world where anything and everything is possible)
A center coulded be opened where you get to help and train up and coming new artists… as well as doing and having what you need to follow your own private dreams…+ it would keep the kids away from the dreaded ASBO’s and police added bonus!… and some point your’d have all the equiptment you need and want..
Just picture it… instead of Fat Boy on the seafront.. you could have the youth of Brighton and surrounding areas.. displaying the skills/ art and music that you’ve helped them create, or have them on the back of a float in a carnival but probally mainly…
Damn, just realised… disconnected from the really world for a bit there…!This is probally such a shit question… Vjing… to me i’m thinking it’s like Djing but with out the D (Disks) Using visuals instead…?????
The visual displays at raves, festivals and parite????? or am i way off…
Almost a way of advertising/ getting a message/ image across???Doing something for the benefits of others has to be more rewarding than solo projects… but then again, depends on the motives…
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.