- This topic has 12 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated February 18, 2005 at 10:01 am by elretardo87.
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February 17, 2005 at 9:28 am #1036186
recieved a few private messages………most of the users seam to have a post count of like 1.
just wondered if the admin know of any of the IP adresses of the users to be from the police?
thanks.
February 17, 2005 at 11:00 am #1064161I think it’s a given that OB will be lurking around most online message boards involving parties.
Some of the IP’s are blatant but the problem is that there is nothing to stop them from accessing at other machines that have ‘innocent’ IP adresses.
I think the solution to this has been best put into words by Generel Lighting. Which is basically to treat the internet like a pub common room. You wouldn’t go running on at the top of your voice to randoms about possibly sensetive information would you? Anyone could be listening.
So treat the internet forums the same way, because ANYONE can see what you say. Just use your noodle when replying to IM’s. Unfortunately this means genuine people sometimes get met with a bit of a paranoid response but i’m sure most people know the score.
February 17, 2005 at 11:15 am #1064162cheers mate.
i’ve heard GL say that on the juice before.
i’ll just have to try and guess who is safe and who is not.
like you say, is unfortuneate that some poeple wont get a reply due to paranoia, but, better safe than sorry.
February 17, 2005 at 11:32 am #1064155Anonymous
do you reckon that the police are on this web site checking these messages? if so fuck’em! it doesnt stop people like us it just fuels us to keep the pressure up!
scott
February 17, 2005 at 11:34 am #1064158cops from all over the world sometimes lurk and very occasionally post (usually the standard warning that “unlicensed parties are illegal and we will take action to stop them” but I doubt if they would go to the trouble of obtaining info in this manner.
If it was proven they posed as a raver to obtain a partyline, they could be challenged in Court that they acted as agents provocateurs by encouraging the unlicensed event, rather than warning the promoters.
your partyline number can be inadvertantly compromised even if you kept it off the internet.
Lets say you passed the number to a friend who gave it to someone they knew who was doing crime, they then got themselves nicked, and the CID decided to check their mobile phonebook as part of another investigation – how many people store partylines in their phones with obvious names?
if you have real concerns about messages you have received let me know, but a balance needs to be struck between security, paranoia and parties will always be risky.
even if someone did ring the line and say they were cops, how could you prove it? sadly people who claim to be ravers occasionally do this sort of thing for “jokes” 🙁
complicated sting operations are normally only used against medium-high level drug dealers and organised crime gangs, which are way easier for cops to infiltrate due to having a similar “macho” culture!
if the cops used all their surveillance capability they had to its full effect, parties would never get off the ground at all! 90% of the time parties are stopped because they have pissed off the locals either due to noise, traffic congestion or anti-social behaviour/crime/damage – not high-tech surveillance.
February 17, 2005 at 11:45 am #1064163scottsummers wrote:do you reckon that the police are on this web site checking these messages? if so fuck’em! it doesnt stop people like us it just fuels us to keep the pressure up!scott
no, i didnt think they were using it to check messages. i thought they might have made an account pretending to be a raver and asked me for our partyline.
General Lighting wrote:If it was proven they posed as a raver to obtain a partyline, they could be challenged in Court that they acted as agents provocateurs by encouraging the unlicensed event, rather than warning the promoters.your partyline number can be inadvertantly compromised even if you kept it off the internet.
Thats useful to know. i supose its the same as entrapment, asking somone for some drugs and them arresting them.
the police convoscated a piece of paper with our number on it from one of our friends anyway.
i just wanted to know if it was safe to send the line to poeple who message me on forums. i guess it is.
Cheers.
February 17, 2005 at 11:58 am #1064159Andy_Aztek wrote:i just wanted to know if it was safe to send the line to poeple who message me on forums. i guess it is.Cheers.
although TBH I think a lot of ravers could do themselves (and the scene) a few more favours, simply by talking a bit more about what other parties, music they enjoy on a messageboard before they start sending messages to crews asking for numbers! OTOH don’t give away personal or rig info in the heat of an argument (seen that happen before too many times…..).
February 17, 2005 at 11:58 am #1064156🙂
i can see where you are coming from.its like if they are knowing of a party and dont say anything until it has taken place then they are the provocateurs!
i have always wondered if there was such a job in the police that just tracked down illegal parties….
i always thought that it was just a passer by or something that if saw something suspicious would get on the dog’n’bone.
have you any proof that they are scanning these web pages?
scott
February 17, 2005 at 12:11 pm #1064164scottsummers wrote:🙂
i have always wondered if there was such a job in the police that just tracked down illegal parties….i always thought that it was just a passer by or something that if saw something suspicious would get on the dog’n’bone.
have you any proof that they are scanning these web pages?
there is. in gatwick so i have been told. we took a few house speakers out, little private do with about 20 poeple, miniumal volume, no distrubance….unfortuneatly we got lost in the woods and set up at the wrong end, right next to the village as opposed to miles from anyone (woops).
anyway police came expecting a full blown rave. laughed at our febel attempts at a rave, said it was rather cute, good effort. we said we dont do raves, we’ve been to a few but we goto clubs and only took some house speakers out because we couldnt do the party round our mates house like intended.
anyway after talking to the friendliest police officers ive ever met about music and a few other things we asked how they knew about raves.
“o we know all about your websites”
“what website”
“o, they have website with all kinds of information on, thats how alot of you ravers find out about parties”
“o, and you go on this site as well”
“well no, i dont, but we have a team in gatwick that spends saterday afternoon trying to work out which parties are on and where they will so we can warn the relevant constablery.”nice bit of useful information. he went on to tell us someother information about his county, where we could and couldnt do parties and how many officers they had to deal with it.
he told us get more than 100 people on site and they cant do shit.
he also told us to go and set up in one of the nighbouring counties
“yea, its only 2, go and set up in ***** or ******** they’l let you get away with it”
we decided not to as those counties have anti rave squads.February 17, 2005 at 12:12 pm #1064165General Lighting wrote:although TBH I think a lot of ravers could do themselves (and the scene) a few more favours, simply by talking a bit more about what other parties, music they enjoy on a messageboard before they start sending messages to crews asking for numbers!i know. or atleast say something that proves they a genuinly a raver and not someone tryin to find info out (be it old bill, an upset farmer or general busy body)
February 17, 2005 at 12:24 pm #1064160scottsummers wrote:🙂
i can see where you are coming from.its like if they are knowing of a party and dont say anything until it has taken place then they are the provocateurs!
even then they can only justify stopping it if they feel this party will cause serious distress in the locality. often parties get busted because the same venue has been rinsed bare times and either the building got trashed or too many cars blocked the road.
Quote:i have always wondered if there was such a job in the police that just tracked down illegal parties….i always thought that it was just a passer by or something that if saw something suspicious would get on the dog’n’bone.
have you any proof that they are scanning these web pages?
scott
all of this.
Most forces collect info on travellers,squatters and ravers and have done so for the last 20 years. There is a central database and intelligence unit, control of which is passed between a number of forces. Tash’s site explains this is more detail (i can’t remember the URL at the moment unfortunately).
Cops justify this surveillance to wider society because of the minority of travellers,squatters and ravers who do other crimes such as burglaries and vehicle theft – but if someone is on this database just because their car is at a rave they cannot be nicked just for this, only if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt they were organising the event or they do other crimes (which include traffic offences, like tax, insurance etc).
Licensed parties are also checked up on by the old bill; some venues are full of CID!
Locals and random haters do provide both grass calls and e-mails to the cops about parties, (one party was even grassed up by pagans/white witches 🙁 )
And cops themselves look here now and then (not just british bobbies but gendarmes and other countries police forces!) – they use the special net connections their goverment gives them, and make no attempt to hide this.
February 17, 2005 at 2:10 pm #1064166Andy_Aztek wrote:he also told us to go and set up in one of the nighbouring counties
“yea, its only 2, go and set up in ***** or ******** they’l let you get away with it”
we decided not to as those counties have anti rave squads.yeh the police near me came an busted a guy i knows partie then a bit later conned there way into his house to tell him that if he threw another party in there area he would get fucked over anywhere else was sound just not there area. So he changed the venue to a different county shot of an email to there mailing list an within 20mins the venue had pigs crawling all over it….so im guessin they tried the same on you andy just get another force to bust you because its well too much effort.
February 18, 2005 at 10:01 am #1064157I personally think that this technology we have nowadays is working against us just as much as it is for us. Where are the good old days where people asked “where the F*** is the rave?…. Then low and behold a few thousand ravers would then just turn up. Thus the word of mouth!
scottsummers
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