from the figures i’ve looked at in the past, grauates do earn more than those who do not go to university. considerably more in certain work, such as medicine, engineering and finance. but you just have to weigh up the pros and cons. you can do evening or part time courses in alot of subjects. i think it’s the opposite way round to what cheeseweasel mentioned, you’re more likely to be stuck in a dead-end boring desk job if you haven’t broadened your horizons and got a degree, which will make you more employable to a broader range of people.

It depends whether or not you have a plan. If you just drop out of school because you can’t be arsed with it anymore and go do a shitty job somewhere, yeh I agree that’s not very sensible and you may well regret it. But some people just aren’t suited to academia and would be far happier in a trade. What’s the point in pushing them into studying? A lot of 16-year-olds may have never even thought of leaving school to get a job – apprenticeships are few and far between nowadays and it seems like school careers advisers are just there to suggest degrees.

And £9000 a year is a lot of money to ‘broaden your horizons’. I don’t think university offers any more in terms of ‘life experience’ than getting a job and working for three years anyway. Some of the most snobbish and closed-minded people I’ve met have been uni students. I speak as someone who’s been there and done that and know loads of people who have come out of uni with a load of debt, couldn’t find a job and feel cheated by the education system. University shouldn’t be for everyone (although it should be available to everyone, but that’s a different matter!). And on another note it makes it difficult to argue the case for abolishing tuition fees when the value of a degree had decreased so much over the last couple of decades due to too many people doing silly subjects.

(Edit: Perhaps ‘silly subjects’ is unfair, it’s usually the people doing them that are silly, not the subjects themselves, like psychology, media studies etc. Btw I work in a university drama dept so I’m probably a massive hypocrite but after two months on the dole I was glad for the work).

@General Lighting 436420 wrote:

It will only be about 5 years by the time your age group graduate from uni.

more like 6-8 for those who go on to do a proper degree, like a PhD (not saying a masters degree isn’t proper). and i am pretty certain that there will a be a slight different in the academic climate by then! or atleast, i should hope so. if you look at it bluntly, unless you really don’t feel that academia is for you, which is perfectly fine, then getting a degree will more than likely get you further unless you’re willing to work exceedingly hard to get to the same place.

but! justanotherdarren isn’t even that far yet and is more concerned with college, so let’s get back to that! 🙂
if you’re failing because of coursework at the moment, i would say that english and history are definitely not the subjects for you.

@harr!et 436484 wrote:

more like 6-8 for those who go on to do a proper degree, like a PhD (not saying a masters degree isn’t proper). and i am pretty certain that there will a be a slight different in the academic climate by then! or atleast, i should hope so.

TBH irrespective of the level of education, whether its post 16 or post graduate, what will happen and is happening is that increasingly, wider society will dictate the needs rather than individuals’ or even families desires, which TBH isn’t much different from the 1980s or previously.

not just the commercial market but genunine social needs – as resource constraints bite harder and the world becomes a smaller and more localised place, there is going to be much more need for a doctor, a vet or a pharmacist, or an electrician or project enginer for a renewable energy system than someone who can design the latest high tech gadget.

already where live I’ve seen loads of young graduates who had dream jobs in IT/tech – basically being paid to play with nice toys at their pace of work rather than “boring” stuff like supporting end users getting their P45’s as the economic depression removes the market demand (the older folk who are often more pragmatic and adaptable are keeping their jobs).

That said it certainly isn’t worth going to uni if you don’t really want to be there, but it is worth getting some kind of post 16 education – and if it isn’t conventional A-levels then its best obtained as day release from a paying job..

I don’t mean to be demeaning but there is a difference between tradesman and engineer and anyone who is an engineer will agree. A tradesman (or technician) in most cases doesn’t actually understand the underlying principles of WHY (not how, there is a difference) the things they work on operate whereas an engineer does. This case of “everyone’s an engineer” has arisen from the supposed idea that doing a trade gives you socially less standing than an engineer and so people who do trades have tried to aggrandise themselves by saying they are engineers when they have neither the training or understand to do so. This may just be a superiority complex for people who are engineers but when you’ve trained for 3/4 years at uni and spent 3 years working to get accreditation from your respective organisation I think that you have a right to be picky about who is known as an engineer.

This is evidenced by in some places people who work as binmen are calling themselves “waste disposal engineers”, which to be honest is a joke. The vast majority of car mechanics who say they’re engineers don’t know the principles of the Carnot or Diesel cycles for example.

I’m not trying to say that binmen are worth less, I’m not, they perform an essential function and to be honest I don’t think they really get paid enough for handling people’s waste all day every day.

However this is going off topic, if you want to continue this GL I suggest by PM or something, because we’re taking this thread a bit too far from where it started I think.

if your considering a trade go for something like refrigeration and airconditioning, someone with an acadamic ability can really do well at it and ya can do city and guilds courses to get you into the more specialised areas of it and even into the design end of it, and its a trade thats always in demand in america, the middle east, australia etc where theres serious money to be made at it