› Forums › Music › Sound Engineering › AMP BRIDGEING HELP ANYONEE??? !!! ????
- This topic has 9 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated April 19, 2012 at 11:32 am by Ben Price.
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April 18, 2012 at 5:32 pm #1052869ello all,
am in need of some advice, forgive me if i am being a dumb f***
we have 4 x double W bins each loaded with 2x 600w 8ohm eminance (i think) drivers so each cab total in at 1.2kw each, we currentlly use theese for the lows. we also have 2x 500w full ranges 8ohm + 2x 400w 4ohm full ranges wich we use as mid high. i am in the process of buying/building 4 x 1850 horns wich i am going to load with pd1850 in order to then use for the lows. The w bins will get used then as kick bins to go along side (well stacked ontop of) the 1850 horns.
when powering theese i understand (heres where i may be a dum f***) bridging an amp takes away one channell meaning all the power goes to one channell, with just one input and no outputs on each of my bins this means i can not daisy chain my subs, does this mean a different amp will be required for each invidual sub/kick bin? so 8 amps in total all bridged together for the lows and kicks? i know my mid tops have ‘input’ and ‘output’s so i can daisy chain theeese i just dont understand how the kicks/sub bass will work???
cheers in advance for your help people!
April 18, 2012 at 5:47 pm #1252653how are the 2 x 8R speakers wired? series or parallel? TBH unless the bridged amps will work into 2R loads there are some problems here anyway.
I’ve seen claims some will but never liked the idea of doing such, ( i have a feeling this is also why “norfolk stacks” tend to sound a bit ropey). but I am old and grew up in the days when it was definitely not a good idea.
I’d check the cabling on all this lot and the impedances. you may need some custom cabling/leads. When I first started rigs had 1/4″ speaker jacks and/or even binding posts, though I’ve heard EU safety rules have stopped this as you can get a shock and also foreigners were using 4mm plugs for the 230V mains and all sorts as they “did that in their country when the Soviets ran the place”. To be fair though things looked sketchy these chaps (girls too, now I remember there were always more female sound engineers in foreign crews) didn’t mix up the audio and 230V as much as folk feared, no one anywhere in the world wanted to blow their speakers or electrocute their mates, they only did this due to a shortage of proper mains plugs!
Unfortunately haven’t done any serious pro audio stuff for years and when I did it was usually with crews where everything was carefully matched and they had loads of kit to go round and as I didn’t own a motor vehicle and still do not, would concentrate on getting the power to the rigs. The last link up I did power for, I had to take 3 x 100A feed off a former sewer pump circuit of a TPN distro and each rig got a 230V phase each. The mains cable used was as big as the service cable to my house!)
April 18, 2012 at 5:50 pm #1252656You are right, bridged amps combine the two channels to essentially make one channel with a single output.
To answer your question though, first it would be wise to check out your amp capabilities. Some amps don’t like running with 2 ohm loads. You will also need to look at the power output for each load. This can all be found in the manual or on the manufacturer’s website.
Be aware that bridging an amp halves the load, so if you already have 2 x 8ohm drivers in your W-Bins which are most likely wired in parallel you will have a 4ohm load. Therefore an amp running that in bridged would be seeing 2ohms. So, you’d only really want to be running 1 W-bin off 1 bridged amp anyway.
As for the 1850’s why not add a linked speakon when you build them so you can daisy chain them. That way you can run two 1850’s off 1 bridged amp provided the amp is up to the job.
April 18, 2012 at 6:01 pm #1252660As we have just started we have a miss match of equipment with erything from prosound to behringer euro power to psl amps, but shit i know but seems to do the job, what i found was when all speakers were bridged and working the prosound amp would keep tripping, completely stopping everything? the load needles on the prosound wernt mooving either?
As my w bins are already built with out a linked speacon i could carry on running one amp per bin then for the horns build a linked speacon into the cabinets allowing me to run 2 off ov one amp!
will this all work? (in theory)
cheers for the help
April 18, 2012 at 6:22 pm #1252654@Ben Price 476675 wrote:
As we have just started we have a miss match of equipment with erything from prosound to behringer euro power to psl amps, but shit i know but seems to do the job, what i found was when all speakers were bridged and working the prosound amp would keep tripping, completely stopping everything? the load needles on the prosound wernt mooving either?
seems than like whatever load is on this amp is 2R (or lower :yakk:) and the amp does not like it. so this one would need a 4R or above load.
Although I’ve not seen rigs do it in recent times (perhaps because amps what work into 2R well are now more common) you could wire the speakers in series to get a suitable impedance, but that means custom cabling and more risk of fuck ups. Also bear in mind whilst a lot of younger people in particular want to see a huge stack even if you only use a proportion of the rig/speakers and it still sounds good you are ahead, less transport costs/wear and tear etc. that would give you time to get to know the kit you are taking out and its setup limitations etc.. I have seen (and heard) a lot of crews where only 2-3 people seemed to have any real knowledge of basic sound engineering or even basic electrical concepts, so in spite of having some really nice kit it can sound quite rough TBH. and I’ve even discussed this with the folk from the rigs and they understood it but often people giving good advice was ignored, especially when folk have got their snouts into the ketamine bag way too early. Also so loud it dins everyones ears doesn’t always mean its good…
There are often recurring rumours that many of the large EA stacks at least at one point contained unloaded cabs and the middle ones were merely there to bulk out the space (and presumably to be loaded at one point). Because of some local culture here what involves literally hugging the speakers I can see why folk would have done this…
April 18, 2012 at 6:35 pm #1252661so each bin needs to either have its own amp, or get a speacon link and daisy chain 2 speakers off ov one amp, but an amp that can handle the power? could you suggest an amp/amps that would cope with the cabs i have… both kicks, bass cabs and mid high, cheers all has sorted quite a few questions on my head!
April 18, 2012 at 7:32 pm #1252658It’s just a question of doing the maths. Work out the impedance of the speaker/pair of speakers you want to drive and make sure the amp you use can supply sufficient power into that load (download the spec sheets).
If you’re not sure of the speaker impedance, use a multimeter to measure the DC resistance across the input terminals and x by 1.3 to give a rough estimate (you should end up with a number that’s close to 8 or 4). Linking two cabs together is just connecting them in parallel, so for two 4ohm speakers daisy-chained the amp will ‘see’ an impedance of 2ohms (most amps won’t like such a low impedance and may cut out or break).
April 19, 2012 at 7:52 am #1252657the reason they do not want a continusly low impedance is the power supply, in the 90’s the n most amp companies started to make big ams like they make car stereo’s loads of powerhandling but no condensators(a condensator is a coil or a battery like where power are stored to give you the extra boost you need) to follow it up…that means you really need big amps to get the power you want, due to lack of storage for low impedance output. The impedance of subs change all the time and in the lower specter frequencies it might be as low as 0,5 ohm, then if you have no condensators to follow that up, the bass sound turns slimey or is no where to be found…so when people ask what to do in these cases like this I say do a time travel and ask the big PA companies if the have some big ass amps with low watt but big condensators that only collecting dust in the back of their storage and ask to buy them……one example of low watt is the rate 4,4 to 1 that means to get a steady 100watts you need 440 watts power consumption to get those 100 watts, but then again you have a amp that can handle those low ohms…and probably play the arse of a modern amp…another good thing about old amps is they are not that in need if a very fine sinus curve to handle the the power current they are fed …and that means you have a easier job to get them to work properly out in field where you have only gennie power with a bad sinus curve work on….
(my own experience is that I/we have two old meyer subs, they need 2k of new amps each, but with a old amp I have made them work properly with only a 1200 (2×600) labgruppen from -89, and with extra cooling I can play flat-out with no distortion at all, next time I have my hand on this set up I will try to get all the specs. to illustrate a better way what I am talking about…)
April 19, 2012 at 11:19 am #1252659Bridging will essentially turn 1 stereo channel (2x mono) into 1x mono channel at twice the power (basically combining the L+R of the stereo channel into one mono channel)
You can still daisy chain and do anything you would normally do on a L or R stereo channel.
but like said before … make sure you do the maths
April 19, 2012 at 11:32 am #1252655@!sinner69! 476737 wrote:
(my own experience is that I/we have two old meyer subs, they need 2k of new amps each, but with a old amp I have made them work properly with only a 1200 (2×600) labgruppen from -89, and with extra cooling I can play flat-out with no distortion at all, next time I have my hand on this set up I will try to get all the specs. to illustrate a better way what I am talking about…)
for those slightly younger bear in mind our generation grew up literally with the birth of independent music and more portable pro audio equipment, and musicians directly working with the electronics engineers. Before that, pro audio was made to specifications of our big national broadcasters, and the post office telecommunications (as often it was so big and bulky it was installed in one place, and the sound brought to it over telephone lines). in those days the post office had monopoly control over all our communications!
however by the late 80s to mid 90s was when it became affordable for our generation to have good quality sound both at home and at events we attended. Much of this equipment was designed in the UK and Europe. For those who have some electronics knowledge, look for articles and books by John Linsley Hood. many are for smaller amps because the inefficiencies of design like class A mean you would have a great big electricity bill or bigger transformers and capacitors which make the equipment heavier…
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› Forums › Music › Sound Engineering › AMP BRIDGEING HELP ANYONEE??? !!! ????