- This topic has 22 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated May 1, 2008 at 11:14 am by junglist1234.
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April 19, 2008 at 1:51 am #1044298
I decided I want to start buildin a sound system. Already sorted out the amp (Thanks a lot to Mr AHC for that!) (Still need another amp though. Cant afford it yet as I’m skint. If anyones selling one still gimme a shout anyway. Doesnt have to be very high powered. It would just be a secondary one.)
We are planning on building two full-range boxes at first. Starting them next week hopefully. Each box will have:
18inch Woofer if all goes to plan (if not, 15″)
10inch Mid-Range
Piezo wide-dispersion horn tweeter
The dimentions of the boxes will be 24inches wide and 43inches tall (Give or take half an inch or so). (23″ x 43″) Havent worked out how deep they will be yet as I can’t get my grubby little mitts on the drivers till next week so I dunno how deep the actual drivers are. Cant be arsed to find the average dimentions of everythin off the www. for a rough estimate coz im tired!
Gunna be powered off a 1200W amp. (Might be 1300W or somethin, cant remember!) plus another one thanks to the 18″ woofers.
Were just wonderin if anyone could give me any help/advice/comments on this coz I basically know what I’m doin but I’m still a bit shaky.
I also need to know how to connect 2 amps together as I havent even got the first idea how to go about that!
Any help at all would be much appreciated. Wiring, power, building, anythin! Cheers.😉
April 19, 2008 at 8:20 am #1160787Anonymous
sheffield-junglist wrote:Were just wonderin if anyone could give me any help/advice/comments on this coz I basically know what I’m doin but I’m still a bit shaky.
I also need to know how to connect 2 amps together as I havent even got the first idea how to go about that!
Any help at all would be much appreciated. Wiring, power, building, anythin! Cheers.😉
your gona need a xover for connecting the two. Though we run a second amp off of the booth output on the mixer as no one in our crew has the foggyest about how to set a xover.
April 19, 2008 at 8:20 am #1218653sheffield-junglist wrote:Were just wonderin if anyone could give me any help/advice/comments on this coz I basically know what I’m doin but I’m still a bit shaky.
I also need to know how to connect 2 amps together as I havent even got the first idea how to go about that!
Any help at all would be much appreciated. Wiring, power, building, anythin! Cheers.😉
your gona need a xover for connecting the two. Though we run a second amp off of the booth output on the mixer as no one in our crew has the foggyest about how to set a xover.
April 19, 2008 at 12:49 pm #1160790Eeek
The trouble with a full range cabinet is that ideally each driver should be isolated in its own box to prevent interference between the drivers IMO. This can be achieved by putting in partitions between the drivers and checking to see what volume of air they have behind them and then putting the appropiate radiator ports [width and depth for each driver] based on their thiele small parameters. Distance between individual drivers is also relevant IMO.
The function of the crossover in the cab is to ‘chop’ up the frequencies and only send certain parts to particular drivers so before you go to the buying them stage you should workout how you want to perform that chop first.
How about putting up some designs for the cab you are thinking of building and lets start there? Then you can get feedback from lots of people on here who have/had rigs and see where you go from there?
April 19, 2008 at 12:49 pm #1218656Eeek
The trouble with a full range cabinet is that ideally each driver should be isolated in its own box to prevent interference between the drivers IMO. This can be achieved by putting in partitions between the drivers and checking to see what volume of air they have behind them and then putting the appropiate radiator ports [width and depth for each driver] based on their thiele small parameters. Distance between individual drivers is also relevant IMO.
The function of the crossover in the cab is to ‘chop’ up the frequencies and only send certain parts to particular drivers so before you go to the buying them stage you should workout how you want to perform that chop first.
How about putting up some designs for the cab you are thinking of building and lets start there? Then you can get feedback from lots of people on here who have/had rigs and see where you go from there?
April 19, 2008 at 3:34 pm #1160794Raj wrote:EeekThe trouble with a full range cabinet is that ideally each driver should be isolated in its own box to prevent interference between the drivers IMO. This can be achieved by putting in partitions between the drivers and checking to see what volume of air they have behind them and then putting the appropiate radiator ports [width and depth for each driver] based on their thiele small parameters. Distance between individual drivers is also relevant IMO.
The function of the crossover in the cab is to ‘chop’ up the frequencies and only send certain parts to particular drivers so before you go to the buying them stage you should workout how you want to perform that chop first.
How about putting up some designs for the cab you are thinking of building and lets start there? Then you can get feedback from lots of people on here who have/had rigs and see where you go from there?
Thats a good idea actually. Will try and post some designs but it won’t be today coz I’m out all day/night. Yeh I were gunna put in a port but I will probably need another one (Due to the 18″ drivers). Not too sure about how to do radiator ports. Not even too sure what they are. I think I read about them somewhere but I cant really remember. (Are they used in scoop bass bins? I think I remember them havin somethin to do with them.)
thiele small parameters??? Now you’ve just lost me! :hopeless:
Yeh for the Xovers I were just gunna connect a capacitor to the tweeter and a coil on each of the bigger drivers. Not sure which capacitors/coils to buy though. Any help on that? I know capacitors are connected in series but I dunno how to do a coil.
Thats a good idea, Raj, I think I will put each driver in its own little box. (never thought of that). My mates dad were tellin me that the drivers might interact badly with each other so putting them in seperate boxes would sort that out.
Cheers for all that, I will post up some plans when I’ve drawn them up properly but it might not be till next week because I cant get the drivers till then so I dunno the exact size etc. of them.
Keep the advice comin :weee::weee::weee::weee::weee:
April 19, 2008 at 3:34 pm #1218660Raj wrote:EeekThe trouble with a full range cabinet is that ideally each driver should be isolated in its own box to prevent interference between the drivers IMO. This can be achieved by putting in partitions between the drivers and checking to see what volume of air they have behind them and then putting the appropiate radiator ports [width and depth for each driver] based on their thiele small parameters. Distance between individual drivers is also relevant IMO.
The function of the crossover in the cab is to ‘chop’ up the frequencies and only send certain parts to particular drivers so before you go to the buying them stage you should workout how you want to perform that chop first.
How about putting up some designs for the cab you are thinking of building and lets start there? Then you can get feedback from lots of people on here who have/had rigs and see where you go from there?
Thats a good idea actually. Will try and post some designs but it won’t be today coz I’m out all day/night. Yeh I were gunna put in a port but I will probably need another one (Due to the 18″ drivers). Not too sure about how to do radiator ports. Not even too sure what they are. I think I read about them somewhere but I cant really remember. (Are they used in scoop bass bins? I think I remember them havin somethin to do with them.)
thiele small parameters??? Now you’ve just lost me! :hopeless:
Yeh for the Xovers I were just gunna connect a capacitor to the tweeter and a coil on each of the bigger drivers. Not sure which capacitors/coils to buy though. Any help on that? I know capacitors are connected in series but I dunno how to do a coil.
Thats a good idea, Raj, I think I will put each driver in its own little box. (never thought of that). My mates dad were tellin me that the drivers might interact badly with each other so putting them in seperate boxes would sort that out.
Cheers for all that, I will post up some plans when I’ve drawn them up properly but it might not be till next week because I cant get the drivers till then so I dunno the exact size etc. of them.
Keep the advice comin :weee::weee::weee::weee::weee:
April 19, 2008 at 5:45 pm #1160791dont bother with caps and coils, they suck power and are hard to A. make to match the frequencys you need(more the coils that are trouble) and B. if your gonna be using anything more than 400w a cab, they are gonna have to be beefy!. a cheap electronic crossover(stereo 2 way with sub out) will control tweets, mids and your bass, and your looking around 60-70 quid for that.
speaker wise, find out which drivers you are getting, then either tell one of us(so we can model the frequency responce) or download winisd yourself and find a crash course on how to use it!
this will also tell you how big your ports need to be as well.
definatly seperate your mid range speaker in its own box-inside a box, doesnt matter about the tweeter as thats enclosed anyway, go for a 1 inch or 1.5 inch compression driver, steer clear away from piezos, they are harsh on the ears and sound rubbish.
if all goes well(depending on box size and driver choice) you should get a good responce from 60hz up to 18khz
jake
April 19, 2008 at 5:45 pm #1218657dont bother with caps and coils, they suck power and are hard to A. make to match the frequencys you need(more the coils that are trouble) and B. if your gonna be using anything more than 400w a cab, they are gonna have to be beefy!. a cheap electronic crossover(stereo 2 way with sub out) will control tweets, mids and your bass, and your looking around 60-70 quid for that.
speaker wise, find out which drivers you are getting, then either tell one of us(so we can model the frequency responce) or download winisd yourself and find a crash course on how to use it!
this will also tell you how big your ports need to be as well.
definatly seperate your mid range speaker in its own box-inside a box, doesnt matter about the tweeter as thats enclosed anyway, go for a 1 inch or 1.5 inch compression driver, steer clear away from piezos, they are harsh on the ears and sound rubbish.
if all goes well(depending on box size and driver choice) you should get a good responce from 60hz up to 18khz
jake
April 19, 2008 at 7:10 pm #1160788I say this every time but I’d do a bit of research into speaker theory before spending your money as you will get a lot more bang for your buck.
Off the top of my head the things I think you should reconsider are.
1) The full range box plan. Each different driver should really be self contained (as Raj mentioned) so it would make sense for you to actually build a couple seperate boxer to save you hernias and also allow for greater flexibility when expanding.
2) A 1300w amp is not a 1300w amp. It al depends on the impedance of the load its driving so while it may do 1200w at 4 ohms (I assume its a cmark 2650 if you got it off MrAHC) it will only put out 700w when at 8ohms etc. SO how you are planning on running your boxes is important.
3) Piezo’s they are cheap but they sound horrible unless you really know what you are doing with them and that takes some serious EQ so youneed a decent graphic and would be cheaper buying a cheap set of compression drivers like the p-audio bmd 450’s.
4) Don’t just buy any driver for a box. Research thiele small parameters and you will discover that different drivers are designed for different jobs and should be picked accordingly. Then the box must be designed arround the driver.
Anyway I’m sorry if I sound like an idiot but as I always try to say…You get what you pay for both in time and money. I mean we use amps that are almost 20 years old in our soundsystem and they still sound as good today as they did when they were made and we have not had a sinlge problem with them. The one place we skimped was the high end when we started and we replaced it twice before we got the money together for something nice.
Anyhow good luck and if you need any more help then get in touch.
April 19, 2008 at 7:10 pm #1218654I say this every time but I’d do a bit of research into speaker theory before spending your money as you will get a lot more bang for your buck.
Off the top of my head the things I think you should reconsider are.
1) The full range box plan. Each different driver should really be self contained (as Raj mentioned) so it would make sense for you to actually build a couple seperate boxer to save you hernias and also allow for greater flexibility when expanding.
2) A 1300w amp is not a 1300w amp. It al depends on the impedance of the load its driving so while it may do 1200w at 4 ohms (I assume its a cmark 2650 if you got it off MrAHC) it will only put out 700w when at 8ohms etc. SO how you are planning on running your boxes is important.
3) Piezo’s they are cheap but they sound horrible unless you really know what you are doing with them and that takes some serious EQ so youneed a decent graphic and would be cheaper buying a cheap set of compression drivers like the p-audio bmd 450’s.
4) Don’t just buy any driver for a box. Research thiele small parameters and you will discover that different drivers are designed for different jobs and should be picked accordingly. Then the box must be designed arround the driver.
Anyway I’m sorry if I sound like an idiot but as I always try to say…You get what you pay for both in time and money. I mean we use amps that are almost 20 years old in our soundsystem and they still sound as good today as they did when they were made and we have not had a sinlge problem with them. The one place we skimped was the high end when we started and we replaced it twice before we got the money together for something nice.
Anyhow good luck and if you need any more help then get in touch.
April 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm #1160795Cheers for all the help! Didn’t think I’d get a response this good! Sniperwolf, can’t download winisd because I’m using Windows Vista and it doesnt work. Thanks for offerin to work out all that stuff for me.
Yeh I knew that I were gunna have to learn more about the theory first but I’ve realised I might as well learn a lot about the theory part of it all even if it means delaying actually building the things for a while because then
a) The speakers will sound better
b) I will probably save a lot of money/pissin aboutYeh James who I’m gettin the drivers off said that there were no point in gettin piezos as well. He said that compression drivers are better so yeh I’ll just get a couple of them.
(Thanks to James of the Industry.st sound system for the drivers/advice)
Thanks to all you lot as well. Anyone know any good sites for the theory behind all this stuff?
April 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm #1218661Cheers for all the help! Didn’t think I’d get a response this good! Sniperwolf, can’t download winisd because I’m using Windows Vista and it doesnt work. Thanks for offerin to work out all that stuff for me.
Yeh I knew that I were gunna have to learn more about the theory first but I’ve realised I might as well learn a lot about the theory part of it all even if it means delaying actually building the things for a while because then
a) The speakers will sound better
b) I will probably save a lot of money/pissin aboutYeh James who I’m gettin the drivers off said that there were no point in gettin piezos as well. He said that compression drivers are better so yeh I’ll just get a couple of them.
(Thanks to James of the Industry.st sound system for the drivers/advice)
Thanks to all you lot as well. Anyone know any good sites for the theory behind all this stuff?
April 20, 2008 at 11:04 pm #1160789Here is a very good place for some common questions.
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq
Read through and report back here with any further questions.
April 20, 2008 at 11:04 pm #1218655Here is a very good place for some common questions.
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq
Read through and report back here with any further questions.
April 21, 2008 at 9:46 am #1160793elretardo87 wrote:Here is a very good place for some common questions.http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq
Read through and report back here with any further questions.
yeah that site has some good cab designs as well … (kinda obviose with the site name … just wanted to make an obviose point tho :laugh_at:)
April 21, 2008 at 9:46 am #1218659elretardo87 wrote:Here is a very good place for some common questions.http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq
Read through and report back here with any further questions.
yeah that site has some good cab designs as well … (kinda obviose with the site name … just wanted to make an obviose point tho :laugh_at:)
April 27, 2008 at 5:50 pm #1160796sorry, I havent been on here in a few days so I havent had time to upload them speaker plans. Just quit my college course so I’ve been busy looking for a job, sorting out a new course etc. I will upload the plans, might take me a while though as theyr not actually drawn up yet and the plans for what were actually doing keep changing. I will do it soon though!
Cheers for all the help so far!
April 27, 2008 at 5:50 pm #1218662sorry, I havent been on here in a few days so I havent had time to upload them speaker plans. Just quit my college course so I’ve been busy looking for a job, sorting out a new course etc. I will upload the plans, might take me a while though as theyr not actually drawn up yet and the plans for what were actually doing keep changing. I will do it soon though!
Cheers for all the help so far!
April 30, 2008 at 10:52 pm #1160797Rite, I think weve finally sorted out what were doin now. The plan is to build 2 scoop bass bins each with a 15″ driver in em. We are also going to have some mid/top ends on the top of the scoops. Just wonderin, would the kind of wood used to make skateboard ramps do for the scoop (2 layers?) because theres a local skatepark (The house) that always has a skip full of pieces of that that arent any good for skateboard ramps but I think would do for a scoop!
Cheers
(Still need to ring the person whos givin us the drivers though as he hasnt replied.)
April 30, 2008 at 10:52 pm #1218663Rite, I think weve finally sorted out what were doin now. The plan is to build 2 scoop bass bins each with a 15″ driver in em. We are also going to have some mid/top ends on the top of the scoops. Just wonderin, would the kind of wood used to make skateboard ramps do for the scoop (2 layers?) because theres a local skatepark (The house) that always has a skip full of pieces of that that arent any good for skateboard ramps but I think would do for a scoop!
Cheers
(Still need to ring the person whos givin us the drivers though as he hasnt replied.)
May 1, 2008 at 11:14 am #116079218mm ply is the best reli
jake
May 1, 2008 at 11:14 am #121865818mm ply is the best reli
jake
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