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February 21, 2008 at 10:04 am #1043728
As a Norfolk MP called for a change in the law to tackle illegal raves yesterday, the organisers of one of the region’s largest legal music events were preparing to change venues following local objections.
Adam Gretton assesses the dilemma facing the local raver….
They are the bane of rural villagers, landowners, conservationists, and are an extra burden on local police resources.
But for some, the Norfolk rave scene represents a chance for young people with the same musical interests to let their hair down at the weekends in isolated locations.
With the illegal rave season in full swing, South West Norfolk MP Christopher Fraser introduced a new bill in the Commons yesterday in an attempt to strengthen the law and give police greater powers to crackdown on large unlicensed gatherings.
But as the Conservative MP called for a change to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act to introduce two new rave-related offences, one of the county’s only legal raves was being reorganised in the face of objectors.
The organiser of the Spectrum Warehouse Party, which was set to attract 4,000 partygoers to an all-night event at the Norfolk Showground’s Exhibition Hall at the weekend, said he “sympathised” with local illegal ravers after he decided to relocate to a smaller venue in Yarmouth after noise concerns from the local parish council.
Keith Louch, director of IML concerts, which has been organising outdoor music events in the region for the last nine years, added that the reams of red tape involved in getting a temporary public entertainment licence and NIMBYism meant that it was “very difficult” to stage legal raves in the county.
Mr Louch said the warehouse party on Saturday featuring DJ sets from famous names such as Groove Armada, Pendulum, Annie Mac, and Scratch Perverts, will be moved to The Atlantis Arena, in Yarmouth, after Costessey Parish Council objected to their licence application.
He added that noise level restrictions, hygiene regulations, electrical tests on music equipment, and the need for safety stewards and a paid police presence meant that there were very few legal raves in Norfolk.
“To organise a legal rave is very difficult because of the amount of infrastructure and the amount of regulations you have to operate. It is amazingly expensive, time consuming, and it is not guaranteed that it will go-ahead, so why not set your sound equipment up in a field?”
“There is a big demand for these sorts of legal events, but I think most people to not like the idea of raves and do not want them anywhere near them. It is like traveller sites. There is a need for them, but no one wants them anywhere near them,” he said.
Mr Louch added that cutting bureaucracy and allowing more legal raves in warehouses, barns and open areas in Norfolk would not completely stop illegal gatherings, but help reduce the frequency.
“There is an element of the illegal rave-goers that go for the illegality of the event, but allowing more legal ones will stop people from saying that they do not have anywhere to go to,” he said.
It comes after hundreds of officers were called to disperse illegal raves involving hundreds of people at Thetford Forest, near Swaffham and Feltwell over the last two weekends.
It prompted local MP Christopher Fraser to introduce a ten minute rule bill in the House of Commons yesterday to change the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act.
The South West Norfolk MP said police had the powers to direct those preparing for a rave away from a site, but his bill would make it an offence to organise a rave and transporting sound equipment for use at a rave.
Mr Fraser, who called for more powers to tackle illegal gatherings last year, said he would be seeking a meeting with Home Office minister Vernon Coaker after there was little sign of progress.
He told the Commons that raves were “devastating” for local farmers, residents, and the surrounding environment and wildlife.
“The countryside is not a theme park, and its residents have every right to protection under the law.
“I am sure that those who attend these unlicensed events enjoy themselves enormously, but that enjoyment comes at a very high cost to those living in the area. This is not a victimless crime. They are hugely profitable to the organisers – a ‘get rich quick’ formula that tramples on the rural economy,” he said.
After the Commons bill hearing, deputy chief constable Ian Learmonth reiterated Norfolk Police’s zero-tolerance approach to unlicensed gatherings.
“Norfolk Constabulary is very clear that these events are completely unacceptable. The behaviour of those involved clearly constitutes serious anti-social behaviour and, in most cases, is criminal. The current legislation often frustrates policing activity due to its configuration and we certainly welcome further straight-forward powers to assist our operations,” he said.
Of the four people arrested at Sunday’s rave at Feltwell, two were cautioned. A 20-year-old Essex man has been released on police bail after being arrested on suspicion of failing to stop his vehicle for police and a 17-year-old south Norfolk boy has been released on bail after being arrested on suspicion of possession with intent to supply drugs.
February 21, 2008 at 10:13 am #1155872Ohhh i never realsied they moved spectrum i was going to go to that, i think they had the same problem with tranzmission at alexander palace in london been to that 3 years on the go and this year there not having it apparently due to complaints about noise from local residents.
February 21, 2008 at 10:13 am #1213298Ohhh i never realsied they moved spectrum i was going to go to that, i think they had the same problem with tranzmission at alexander palace in london been to that 3 years on the go and this year there not having it apparently due to complaints about noise from local residents.
February 21, 2008 at 10:32 am #1155857unfortunately as the report states the rest of society isn’t helping much
there is a lack of suitable venues across East Anglia, and conventional night time venue managers often get “leaned on” by cops to discourage dance music events because of previous prejudices over the risk from drugs etc
landowners have also been scared by NFU into feeling they would get sued if they allowed their land to be used for a rave and some bad shit happened (but I’ve rarely in 20+ years ever heard of a venue actually being sued in civil court, not even the Zest owners for instance after the shooting)
its probably no more risk than conventional farming (lots of dangerous things there)
The TENS license is an option some councils never agreed with it in the first place (been reading the responses to consultations) and it seems there is still a fair bit of paperwork required for some councils (for instance a Welsh council needed a 35 page document before they were satisfied)
So thetford forest gets caned constantly as its the only bit of accessible “public” land in East Anglia
I do think crews also have to get a bit more organised and disciplined. Some safety rules do make sense and aren’t that difficult to comply with (I am a trained and competent electrical safety tester for instance)
February 21, 2008 at 10:32 am #1213282unfortunately as the report states the rest of society isn’t helping much
there is a lack of suitable venues across East Anglia, and conventional night time venue managers often get “leaned on” by cops to discourage dance music events because of previous prejudices over the risk from drugs etc
landowners have also been scared by NFU into feeling they would get sued if they allowed their land to be used for a rave and some bad shit happened (but I’ve rarely in 20+ years ever heard of a venue actually being sued in civil court, not even the Zest owners for instance after the shooting)
its probably no more risk than conventional farming (lots of dangerous things there)
The TENS license is an option some councils never agreed with it in the first place (been reading the responses to consultations) and it seems there is still a fair bit of paperwork required for some councils (for instance a Welsh council needed a 35 page document before they were satisfied)
So thetford forest gets caned constantly as its the only bit of accessible “public” land in East Anglia
I do think crews also have to get a bit more organised and disciplined. Some safety rules do make sense and aren’t that difficult to comply with (I am a trained and competent electrical safety tester for instance)
February 21, 2008 at 12:26 pm #1155862Scouse wrote:“They are hugely profitable to the organisers – a ‘get rich quick’ formula that tramples on the rural economy,” he said.Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.
February 21, 2008 at 12:26 pm #1213287Scouse wrote:“They are hugely profitable to the organisers – a ‘get rich quick’ formula that tramples on the rural economy,” he said.Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.
February 21, 2008 at 12:43 pm #1155858BioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.Half these MPs still think its acid house days where they used to charge for entry to illegal parties..
Even legal event organisers have trouble covering their costs…
February 21, 2008 at 12:43 pm #1213283BioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.Half these MPs still think its acid house days where they used to charge for entry to illegal parties..
Even legal event organisers have trouble covering their costs…
February 21, 2008 at 1:18 pm #1155871General Lighting wrote:Half these MPs still think its acid house days where they used to charge for entry to illegal parties..Even legal event organisers have trouble covering their costs…
In one of the news clips after last weekend, the copper was refering to the organisers as ‘organised crime gangs’ :laugh_at:
Most rigs in norfolk couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.February 21, 2008 at 1:18 pm #1213297General Lighting wrote:Half these MPs still think its acid house days where they used to charge for entry to illegal parties..Even legal event organisers have trouble covering their costs…
In one of the news clips after last weekend, the copper was refering to the organisers as ‘organised crime gangs’ :laugh_at:
Most rigs in norfolk couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.February 21, 2008 at 1:34 pm #1155859Scouse wrote:In one of the news clips after last weekend, the copper was refering to the organisers as ‘organised crime gangs’ :laugh_at:
Most rigs in norfolk couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.true to an extent but TBH what the cops are moaning about is everyone is so blatantly doing K and other drugs.. (empty wraps chucked on floor, bare balloons all over the place)
the street culture in East Anglia is like London was 16-20 years ago
A lot of East Anglia cops are all ex metpol officers who don’t want to see the same sort of gang culture what exists in “Londonistan” today (and many residents are also ex-Londoners)
So they see kids fronting and flexing and acting “hard” etc both at raves and online and actually take some of it at face value…
February 21, 2008 at 1:34 pm #1213284Scouse wrote:In one of the news clips after last weekend, the copper was refering to the organisers as ‘organised crime gangs’ :laugh_at:
Most rigs in norfolk couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.true to an extent but TBH what the cops are moaning about is everyone is so blatantly doing K and other drugs.. (empty wraps chucked on floor, bare balloons all over the place)
the street culture in East Anglia is like London was 16-20 years ago
A lot of East Anglia cops are all ex metpol officers who don’t want to see the same sort of gang culture what exists in “Londonistan” today (and many residents are also ex-Londoners)
So they see kids fronting and flexing and acting “hard” etc both at raves and online and actually take some of it at face value…
February 21, 2008 at 1:56 pm #1155870General Lighting wrote:true to an extent but TBH what the cops are moaning about is everyone is so blatantly doing K and other drugs.. (empty wraps chucked on floor, bare balloons all over the place)the street culture in East Anglia is like London was 16-20 years ago
A lot of East Anglia cops are all ex metpol officers who don’t want to see the same sort of gang culture what exists in “Londonistan” today (and many residents are also ex-Londoners)
So they see kids fronting and flexing and acting “hard” etc both at raves and online and actually take some of it at face value…
couldn’t agree more, for a place that has alot of countryside/farmland and forest, there sure is alot of rude boys and crime about!!!
February 21, 2008 at 1:56 pm #1213296General Lighting wrote:true to an extent but TBH what the cops are moaning about is everyone is so blatantly doing K and other drugs.. (empty wraps chucked on floor, bare balloons all over the place)the street culture in East Anglia is like London was 16-20 years ago
A lot of East Anglia cops are all ex metpol officers who don’t want to see the same sort of gang culture what exists in “Londonistan” today (and many residents are also ex-Londoners)
So they see kids fronting and flexing and acting “hard” etc both at raves and online and actually take some of it at face value…
couldn’t agree more, for a place that has alot of countryside/farmland and forest, there sure is alot of rude boys and crime about!!!
February 21, 2008 at 2:29 pm #1155856AnonymousBioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.Go to Sheffield and people collect for the rigs then run off with the money…
February 21, 2008 at 2:29 pm #1213280AnonymousBioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.Go to Sheffield and people collect for the rigs then run off with the money…
February 21, 2008 at 3:39 pm #1155869BioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.very true
a small donations does not cover the costs of the the rig in the slightest at most parties.
February 21, 2008 at 3:39 pm #1213295BioTech wrote:Oh yeah, you make thousands alright. Most of the time party organisers will lose money.very true
a small donations does not cover the costs of the the rig in the slightest at most parties.
February 21, 2008 at 6:16 pm #1155865Partys are EXPENSIVE time consuming and fucking hard work for anyone organising them.
I think trying to organise a legal event using something like a tens license and still getting the feel of free party IS possible just extremely hard, especially as a lot of people organising party’s have full time jobs and have to drag themselves to work on a monday after only packing up their rig 12 before.
Plus you would have to charge a large entrance fee to cover the cost of legit security and first aid trained people!
I know raves are bad and upset a lot of people but unfortunately i love them and will keep attending them until this if it ever does becomes impossible.
All we can do is try and be sensible CLEAN up after party’s, respect the police negotiate with them rather than throwing bottles.February 21, 2008 at 6:16 pm #1213290Partys are EXPENSIVE time consuming and fucking hard work for anyone organising them.
I think trying to organise a legal event using something like a tens license and still getting the feel of free party IS possible just extremely hard, especially as a lot of people organising party’s have full time jobs and have to drag themselves to work on a monday after only packing up their rig 12 before.
Plus you would have to charge a large entrance fee to cover the cost of legit security and first aid trained people!
I know raves are bad and upset a lot of people but unfortunately i love them and will keep attending them until this if it ever does becomes impossible.
All we can do is try and be sensible CLEAN up after party’s, respect the police negotiate with them rather than throwing bottles.February 21, 2008 at 6:35 pm #1155868i like the idea of having party areas in each of the counties
but unfortuantly this would be still breaking the law and it would contradict itself
February 21, 2008 at 6:35 pm #1213294i like the idea of having party areas in each of the counties
but unfortuantly this would be still breaking the law and it would contradict itself
February 21, 2008 at 6:46 pm #1155860Planet Yes did an event with a TENS in Norfolk in 2006
it was supposedly a fiver to get in but by the time me and my mates got there there wasn’t even anyone on the door
it was pretty much identical to a free party, maybe a bit “cleaner” with more clubber/student types but still fun.
Although I heard that Innerfields oddly shaped speakers nearly went over due to people trying to stack against them, horrified hippies came running out of all directions to chastise the Norfolk youth for this practice :laugh_at:
Playground Politics wrote:i like the idea of having party areas in each of the countiesbut unfortuantly this would be still breaking the law and it would contradict itself
if these areas were already licensed/designated it would be no more illegal than Project Storm or Pams House.
February 21, 2008 at 6:46 pm #1213285Planet Yes did an event with a TENS in Norfolk in 2006
it was supposedly a fiver to get in but by the time me and my mates got there there wasn’t even anyone on the door
it was pretty much identical to a free party, maybe a bit “cleaner” with more clubber/student types but still fun.
Although I heard that Innerfields oddly shaped speakers nearly went over due to people trying to stack against them, horrified hippies came running out of all directions to chastise the Norfolk youth for this practice :laugh_at:
Playground Politics wrote:i like the idea of having party areas in each of the countiesbut unfortuantly this would be still breaking the law and it would contradict itself
if these areas were already licensed/designated it would be no more illegal than Project Storm or Pams House.
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